Mossy Toyota

by jonprz on 04/22/2013

[non-permissible content removed] My name is Jon Perz. I'm from San Diego, where I have worked as a clerk for a major world wide retailer for over 24 years. Thank you for having this hearing and for inviting me to testify. In 2007, I purchased a “certified” used 2002 Ford Escort for $12,000 from Mossy Toyota. When I took it for a test drive, I noticed a vibration, and asked about it. They said that the idler needed to be adjusted and they could take care of it if I brought it back the next day. At that time, I had been a loyal customer of Mossy Toyota for over 6 years. They are the most prominent dealership in town, with nearly a dozen dealerships. The car came with a 90-day, 3,000 mile bumper-to-bumper warranty and I also purchased an extended warranty. I had no idea then that the contract I signed included a clause -- on the back -- that took away my Constitutional rights and required any dispute to be submitted to an arbitration program chosen and paid for by Mossy Toyota. When I took the car back for repairs, I was taken aback by their change in attitude. I found out later that Mossy knew about the vibration problem before they sold the car to me, and knew they could not fix it. They claimed that the vibration was "normal" and didn't need to be fixed. They took the car for repairs twice, but the shaking and rattling continued. I asked for a refund, several times, but they refused. Then I contacted an independent expert, who found extensive rust damage and other signs that the car had been submerged under water. He said that vital electronic equipment was contaminated and corroding. He also found that the vehicle had been in a collision. (I found out later that the collision damage had been reported to Carfax.) He concluded that the car was unsafe to drive. I then made arrangements for an alternate vehicle. I was stuck with a lemon I could not sell to anyone, knowing what I knew about it being unsafe. I would not take advantage of anyone else by re-selling it. The car remains sitting, un-driven, un-drivable, and collecting dust in my garage to this day. Finally I hired an attorney who filed a suit. Then Mossy Toyota filed a motion in court to get the case kicked out of court and go to arbitration, before the American Arbitration Association. While I was waiting to get things resolved, I had to keep making monthly payments for the car. Otherwise, it could have been repossessed, ruining my credit. I ended up paying off the entire loan of over $12,000 -- all for a car I couldn't even drive. My attorney found out that one arbitrator who was going to hear my case had a history of representing car dealers. Another had a history of ruling for the company and against the consumer on forty different cases. So he contested the arbitrators. Then Mossy refused to pay to initiate the arbitration proceedings, as required by the contract. Under the AAA rules, the company was supposed to pay $750 to start the arbitration process moving. Instead, Mossy insisted that I pay up-front. But that is contrary to AAA rules. The contract they presented to me said that they would pay up to $1500 for case management and arbitrator fees, but they still insisted that I pay instead. My attorney has tried over and over again to get the case heard. I've been waiting ever since 2007, just to get my case heard in arbitration. Finally, last year, the AAA wrote a letter to Mossy refusing to hear any case involving Mossy, and demanding that the AAA name be removed from Mossy's contracts. The AAA wrote they took that action because "Mossy Toyota has not complied with our request to adhere to our policy regarding consumer claims..." Recently, the court ordered that my case be heard by the Judicial Arbitration and Mediation Services (JAMS). I have a hearing date set for next June, before a JAMS arbitrator. But just last week, Mossy filed a motion seeking to have the case dismissed and taken off the docket for JAMS. So now I'm still having to battle, just to get a hearing in arbitration. I know that the proponents of arbitration claim that it's faster than courts. But -- I don't think they take into account cases like mine. If I had been able to have my case heard in court, I think that Mossy Toyota would not have sold me that defective car in the first place. But why not, since they know I can never get them in front of a jury?

Read more

by john643 on 03/25/2013

I dealt with Hans, who was professional and authentic, no pressure and easy to deal with. I told him I had 2 hours to buy the car, and we test drove the Scion FR-S, did the credit check, got financing and got the car in 2 hours. He was amazing! The financing rep, Toby was very efficient and fast. Wonderful experience.

Read more

by mberneger on 01/15/2013

My son was buying his first car, a Scion tC. The salesmen were extremely friendly and helpful. They searched San Diego and found him the exact car in the exact color he wanted and brought it to Mossy that same day. The finance gentleman was also friendly and helpful--not pushy at all. He wound up helping my son finance the car for the monthly payments he wanted and he could even afford to add a few extra features. It was a great experience for him (and for me, too)

Read more

by docsd on 02/24/2012

We were looking at a car at this dealership, when we found a rat nest under the hood of the car, after their reported "60 point" inspection. All they said was "thanks for inspecting it for us." Terrible leadership, and the salesmen are [non-permissible content removed]. They only care about profit.

Read more

by bobfordpd on 11/23/2011

I previously owned a Prius IV with sunroof, I wanted a larger vehicle with more room. They were hard to get, and none of the dealers offered much of a discount. However the internet sales person at Mossy was the same fellow I had purchased the Prius IV from, he remembered me from 2 years ago and offered me very favorable terms. I was set on the purchase, but he insisted on a test drive, made sure I understood all the new features, and he personally checked the car for any defects. My wife saw a slight scratch on the plate that covers the passenger window control lever, and he immediately ordered a new part. He explained that the Prius V is being bought up like hotcakes from Taxi Companies because they get to the front of the line in the airports. I felt he went out of his way for customer loyalty.

Read more

by jbg86 on 09/17/2011

I went to Mossy Toyota looking for a truck. I was not sure what kind options that I was looking for on the truck. The agent who was helping me worked with me to determine what would suit my needs and also allowed me to drive 3 different vehicles. In the end, I was able to come to a decision and did not feel pressured during the process. I got a truck at a great price.

Read more

by vmart on 05/10/2011

I got in contact with Mossy Toyota via the AMEX Internet sales. Each dealership submits what they will sell cars to AMEX. AMEX lists the dealers and what they will sell the car for. The deal with AMEX stipulates there will be no negotiating since the dealerships submits what they will sell the car for. I selected Mossy Toyota for this. Was put in email contact with Kazumi Nakawatase (fleet sales). They sent me the price I would pay for a Prius. (March 8). This matched what the AMEX web app listed (aside for an option not available). I asked a few questions via email and then stated that I would come in on Sunday to purchase the car (March 13). On Sunday I find out that Kazumi has it off (not an issue). They were busy so another sales person helped me (forgot name). Person confirmed that the price was pre-negotiated and all I need to do was to accept the deal. I test drove the car. They asked that I do a credit check. We discussed my trade in value. Then they come back and say that they will not honor the deal with AMEX. They wanted me to pay more. I refused and left. I will not use Mossy in the future for any car purchase. They did not have to wait until I have spent about 2 hours there to tell me they would not honor the pre-negotiated deal. I sent an email to Kazumi about this that night and never heard back.

Read more

by niucutie16 on 06/07/2009

This was my first car buying experience and let me say I am very unhappy. We bought a Ford Explorer 2005 and on the way home it started making a noise when it went over 40mph. We were going to take it in to the dealership when we had time, but within the 30 day warranty. Well they beat us to it because they reposessed our car. They said the contract we signed wasn't legal and because we didn't call them back in time they took our car. Then when we called they were rude and didn't seem like they wanted to resolve the situation. So the car of my dreams turned into a nightmare. Now, I am taking my business to a place that actually deserves it and treats customers the way they should be treated. Would not recommend this place to anyone.

Read more

by jonprz on 03/24/2009

Used car salesmen are often the butt of jokes, but they are also largely responsible for their own bad rap thanks to gimmicky ads and a penchant for shrill sales pitches loaded with false promises. So, when my 14-year old Toyota truck expired a couple of years ago, I went straight to Mossy Toyota Mission Bay, an established San Diego dealership that I had an existing relationship with. Their mechanics had done a good job servicing my old truck for over five years and I thought the dealership had a solid reputation. They were having a "certified red tag sale," and I thought if I purchased a vehicle at that time, it would further guarantee the auto's reliability. Being that I was a serious customer, I told the salesman that I needed a car for work and was prepared to buy that day. After looking at the two best-priced cars on the lot, I chose to test drive an $8000 2002 Ford Escort with reasonable mileage. I was given a free Auto Check report showing the car had a clean vehicle history, so imagine my surprise when I took it out on the road and quickly felt the car's terrible vibration. It was serious enough to make the steering wheel and dashboard vibrate and the rearview mirror shake. My cool-headed salesman was completely unruffled by this, saying it was no big deal, the car's idle just needed a minor adjustment and that Mossy would fix it for me. He seemed completely familiar with the problem and even knew how to handle it. Three times during the test drive, he showed me how I could press gently on the accelerator with the car in park to stop the shaking and rattling - temporarily. There's a reason I didn't walk away then and there. For over 20 years, I've worked at a major warehouse club where customers are our members and their satisfaction is our top priority. We bend over backwards to make things right for them, no matter what. In my experience, good business means excellent customer service and, remember, I already was a Mossy customer and had never had any complaints with their service - before this. So I believed the salesman's explanation and his promise to repair my "certified" vehicle, but I did tell him I wanted the car fixed before driving it off the lot. He said they could not give me an appointment that day, and I also couldn't get one within the 48-hour window they allow for customers to cancel their purchase. Over the next few weeks, Mossy tried to repair the car several times but could not, and then they ridiculed my request to return the car for the full purchase price. I found help at the Lemon Law Center where I was connected with an attorney and an auto investigator who only needed a single thorough check to learn what Mossy's salesmen and mechanics did not disclose me: The Escort had been completely submerged in water. They had sold me an unusable rusted-out flood car. If that's not bad enough, Mossy's sales contract included a clause that prevents me from suing them in court. This business practice, binding mandatory arbitration, is a fancy name for a dirty, anti-consumer scheme that protects companies from financial liability for all sorts of bad outcomes. I don't really understand how it can be legal, but businesses are able to cheat and lie and then hire their own fake judges who pretend to consider the facts but, nine times out of ten, rule against the little guy. It's really no different than old-fashioned highway robbery. I'm hurt by this experience, and not just in the wallet. My attorney was told by the dealership's attorney that "Mossy wants to take a stand" in my case. A stand against what? Honesty? Fairness? I thought Mossy might eventually accept their responsibility, acknowledge their "mistake" and make things right with me. But this has been going on now for over two years, and it's not over yet. In August of 2007 the court ordered us to arbitration at Mossy's request. Ever since then Mossy has stalled and delayed the arbitration. They re

Read more

by karlito1 on 02/26/2009

Made a deal on a new car. Started the financing process. Current car appraisal value in Kelley Blue Book and Edmunds is about $7,000. When they came back with the "details", there was an amount for $1,103. Asked what that was for . . . How much EXTRA I would need to pay to get them to take MY car in trade! No Freakin' Way ! ! ! "We'll sell you a new car and let you pay $1,103 EXTRA to take your car in trade." This is the Sales Manager. [violative content deleted]. I could have gotten a new car for less $$$ if I didn't have a trade. Good thing I asked - I feel really bad for the people that have been TOTALLY hosed by these [violative content deleted] people. Had a VERY good customer experience with the Service Department, even though the price was a bone crusher. All work completed per plan and they gave me a free loaner. :o/ Done. I feel a LITTLE better now.

Read more

by beemerbaby on 12/18/2008

I recently spent three months looking for a car. In that time, I took a lot of test drives trying to decide which car was best for me. One of my early test drives was a 2008 Solara convertible at Mossy. I decided against that car, but later on decided to try a Camry hybrid. I dug the original salesman's business card.out of my wallet and asked for him when I went back to the dealership. I expected to be treated well because of my loyalty. Instead, I was asked to come back for a test drive on another day that wasn't so "busy". I could have understood it if they had a lot of customers, but I only saw one other customer on the lot and two salesman sitting around doing nothing. When I persisted in having the test drive that day, they tried to direct me down the street to their used car lot, saying that was the car that was available for test drives. I told them I wasn't interested in a used car, but they still refused me. Of all the dozen or so dealerships I visited in my search (Carmax, Toyota, BMW, Lexus, Volvo), this is the only one where I had trouble. And it wasn't a specific salesman. During this particular visit, I talked to two different salesman and got the same story from both. I was there on a Saturday, so you might have a better experience if you went on a different day. But I don't feel the customer should have to plan their car shopping around what's convenient for the dealership. At the time I'm writing this review, there is an economic crisis and people aren't buying cars. Given that situation, their behavior makes even less sense. In my case, I had to have a car so I was definitely going to buy something. I made them aware of this, but it didn't seem to matter. I always respected the salesman's time and expected the same treatment in return. I did not get that from Mossy.

Read more

by abegil45 on 09/23/2008

I was totally taken advantage of on my tradeand was put in a full price truck when the dealer could have put me in twice as much truck for the same price, they had no mercy on me and made me believe I was getting a great deal, a friend from another dealership and my bank told me they couldn't believe that I signed the contract, [violative content deleted]

Read more

by dncris on 01/09/2008

I had talked to 4 dealers in San Diego area. I saw on Mossy Toyotas website a great deal for a Camry Hybrid Lease Special. It was a low down and a low monthly. I called and talked to a sales woman to make sure this special was still good and she found out and called me back and said yes. I even mention I might want two Camry's and made an appointment to see her the next day. Going in to this store I knew what my car was worth for the trade in by viewing Edmunds and KBB website. I just wanted to get down to how much they would give me for my BMW but the sales lady insisted that I go look at her inventory and then insisted I take the Camry on a test drive to make sure it runs how I expect it too. I told her i had already test drove one already but she said I must drive it first ( Like I will fall in love with it if I drive it) So I complied and drove it about 12 miles on a route she takes everyone on.. So we get back into the store and sit at her desk and she wants me to fill out an application. (I just wanted to know what I will get for my trade in) I had told her in the car that I already checked what the trade-in value was and that I should be close to even on my payoff for the BMW. She mentions that usually on BMW's that its usually 5000 dollars that needs to come out of pocket cause BMW's are hard to resell. I mentioned that if that was the case then we would'nt be doing business. So anyway, She talked to the guy who "works the numbers" and gives him the appraisal form I filled out for my BMW. She comes back to tell me they will give me 26,000 for the car. I almost flipped! My BMW is a 2007 328i coupe with sports package which is 18 inch rims instead of 17inch, Bluetooth, Dual Power Seats with drive memory. and leather interior. with 17,500 miles it retails at 38K on KBB and only 33K on Edmunds. (I have no idea why it is sucha big difference when the two sites you to be close to the same in recent years) Trade-In value was 31,090 on KBB and 29,299 on Edmunds. (this is all in good or clean for the shape of the car, even though I would say its in excellent condition.) She talks to the "numbers guy" again and comes back with a "okay maybe between 26k to 27K". I told her she was a nice person but business is business and to have a nice day, Then she goes to the "numbers guy" one last time and comes back with a "okay what if we give you 29K" By that point I was already upset cause of the prior estimates and felt like they thought I was stupid. I told them that their website for the toyotas of San Diego had a appraisal estimator and was used by KBB and they said they dont go by KBB cause its never accurate. My pay off was for 32,505.66. I wasnt going to come out of pocket an extra 3500 on top of the down that was needed for the lease. I did expect them to maybe tell me 29,000 and I would have said 32,500 and we could have came to an agreement some where in between. That never happen and that's why I say this place does not know how to make a good sell. BAD NEGOTIATING!

Read more

by auntbea3 on 08/10/2007

A previous email to this dealer explained exactly what we needed; here is the response: "Thank you for your reply and giving me the opportunity to earn your business! I know you prefer emails only, so I just wanted to touch base and see if you could provide me a little more information about the 4Runner you are looking for. Are there any other features other than the Automatic, SR5 V6 that you are looking for? Also, what are your top 3 color choices? Would you like to come in for a test drive to be sure the vehicle fits your needs? I look forward to assisting you with your car search. This info had been previously submitted by email so we submitted it again: (Incidently, we sent this same message to all of the inquiries for "more information"; this was our standard response to this dealer, who needed to "know", what it only took 1 email for 2 other dealers to understand and get immediately) "Okay, here are our blunt answers to your questions: We need a 2007 vehicle that can seat 3 large kids in second seat, 4 liter engine (would like 4 cylinders but unavailable in this model), 4 wheel drive, and roof rack, that’s it. So far, our research on Edmunds has led us to the 4 Runner. We’re not into the music, or bells and whistles options, the less, the better; it’s transportation and it needs to be simple, efficient and economical. (we had previously stated that color was unimportant) No trade in. We have our own financing. Test drive depends on price. We’re not loyal to San Diego merchants, we’re willing to purchase in LA (and have done so in past). No games please. We’ve done our research. Prefer email because it is more efficient for us. Phone calls will get the machine" So with all of this information and knowing that we were "Edmunds educated", we we're blown away to get another email saying: "Below you will find the details of the 4Runner you inquired about. I appreciate you letting me know that price is your driving factor." MSRP 31,494 MVP -$500 Rebate -$2,500 28,494 Mossy value pricing is $500 off MSRP. We only have two left and as long as they're available there is an additional $2,500 rebate available. This represents a great deal on this vehicle. Beyond this, any reasonable offer you would like to make I am happy to present to my supervisors." Games! Did I have "STUPID" written on my emails? Found the same options and 4Runner at two other local dealers who actually appreciated us being upfront with them (realizing also that unloading August 2007 inventory to make room for 2008 makes sense) and both quoted written figures at $25-26K rebate included, $6000 below MSRP! Invoice was ~$27K. But I guess my deal isn't as good as Mossy's $500 off MSRP, wow, what a deal! Now check out the review of the service department by another Edmunds user.

Read more