Used 2017 BMW 4 Series Consumer Reviews

Possibly the best convertible "sporty" car today!

Overall, this is the best convertible I have ever owned, and I have owned 7 convertibles prior to this purchase, one of which was an outstanding 2005 BMW 330ci convertible! I traded in a 2013 Audi A6 and 2008 Porsche Boxster for this car, trying to get a combination that best reflected those 2 cars combined. The BMW is not a sports car, nor is it intended to be, but it has the feel of one! It is by far the quietest convertible I have owned, measured both by top up and down. The wind reflector really helps, but it only works with people in the front seats. The back seats are "adequate" for adults around town, but not for long trips. The heated neck ventilator is wonderful anytime it is below 68 degrees. I deeply value a strong sound system, particularly with the top down, and the Harman Kardon system does not disappoint. We have taken several 7 hour plus trips, and it is very comfortable on the long trips, top up or down. The engine and transmission are smooth and powerful, and they are more than 90% of the owners would ever want or need. I loved my 2005 BMW, but this car is much sleeker, with a larger and more comfortable interior. The trunk and fold down rear seat are outstanding with the top up, and more that adequate when down. We comfortably took a week long trip to the beach with beach chairs and top down, which you couldn't do in most hard top convertibles. I have the following criticisms: 1) A luxury convertible should have available ventilated seats, and they are NOT an option, 2) the navigation and sound system are not as intuitive or efficient as in the Audi, and 3) the climate control is not fully automatic, it requires you to manually adjust the fan's speed and vent direction. Overall, these are minor detractors, but changes BMW needs to make in this car. I have owned the car for 5 months, and I truly love driving it and am fully pleased with my purchase, and confidently recommend this car if it is what you are seeking!

Love BMWS - First Hardtop Convertible

My fifth newly purchased BMW and this time I was looking for a convertible. I narrowed my results to the Porsche Boxster or a BMW (4 Series or up...bigger guy). I choose the BMW based on consumer and expert reviews, the hardtop opposed to soft top, and I love the four year no hassle warranty/service with these cars. I may have went for the 6 cylinder (435i) because I prefer the power (as in past BMWs) but my wife owns a newer 328i and when in sport mode, I'm satisfied. Same case here - I have all the packages except cold weather (does have heated seats) including the 'M' package. More active suspension and acceleration....handles great. Setting the level here though...this vehicle has so much technology that after reading the manual a couple of times, I still had a few questions for the dealership. I'm a technology professional by trade so that appeals to me but for the non-tech types, the technology and/or communications package may be overkill since you'll probably never use the services. My parents own an X5, are not tech savvy and barely use all the features available...just a point to consider. Overall, I'll probably drive BMWs for a very long time because I trust the product and the backend support/service. One more note - I live in Central Florida so the chance to ride topless is pretty much year round hence desiring a convertible. Update 7/2018 - Resale value used to be very good, e.g. 70% or higher after two years. Imagine my surprise when researching my $63,000 ride (all packages are included), I had a depreciation by over 50% in two years (with less than 5500 miles...yes 5500). I could purchase a 2018 new for what I paid for my 2016. As much as I love BMWs, I'll be looking at a Porsche Panamera next. Yes, more expensive but the resale is highest for sport sedans. Too bad but I think BMW flooded the market with the ones and twos thus hurting resale values. If this doesn't bother you, I love the car and you should be happy if purchasing or leasing; even a CPO seems like a better deal if purchasing. BTW - I don't lease and purchase new.

BMW has its mojo back

In Jan 2017 I replaced my bmw435i xdrive with the 440ixdrive with track package and manual trans; while the cars are very similar, the440 is big improvement; for a slight increase in price, more items are standard; seats better, interior nicer; entertainment system better ;although the is no longer hardwire controller for the i pod;but the main improvement is in PERFORMANCE;the new six is stronger smoother with better gas mileage; handling improved with quicker response more accurate steering ; more powerful brakes ;firmer but comfortable ride and that was with winter tires; the above mentioned is even better with the stock non runflat Michelain pilot summer tires;while the 435 was extremely competant, this car has a stronger driver connection and is fun to drive

Ultimate driving machine - for real

This is our fifth BMW. Drove 3 series while we had kids at home. Then got a 1-series that was a blast to drive - handled like go-kart. Decided to go for the 428 instead of the 228. We got a 428i with a manual transmission. What a great car. Great handling and acceleration. Really nice transmission. A dream car on country roads. Took it up to Vermont on backroads and couldn't stop smiling. Quite and smooth on highways. Usually drive it in Sport mode - which makes a noticeable difference. The rear seat is big enough for adults, especially around town or for an hour or so. The 2016 model has so many great standard features. We don't care about GPS because we use our iPhones, so we didn't get that package. Just added heated seat/steering wheel. Makes it a great value if you don't load up on the options. Beautiful looking car with great lines. Many people comment on how great it looks. The Ultimate Driving Machine... and I don't work for BMW.

428i gran coupe 2016

I bought 428i gran coupe a month ago, drove it for nearly 1000 miles, this car is a beast on the roads especially when you activate the sport mode you feel the car is roaring and eager for your push on the gas pedal.....handling and steering feedback is perfect, I used to have Mazda 6, honda civic, Kia sportage, Hyundai....This car is from another realm, if you are a type of guys that like fun in driving, acceleration and sharp turns then this car is for you.... Add to that a great gas mileage for the power it generates. Around 27 mpg combined. My advice to you is that if you like to own the car until it dies then spend extra bucks on getting technology package (with head up display feature), premium package which adds a lot of conveniece, rear view camera, and if you live in cold area then add a winter package, believe me it worth every penny.... It is a luxury sport car with acceptable cost and looks much better than 3 series ... If you are into luxury and do not care about fun in driving or if your budget is limited then search for a lower class cars.... (some new kia cars looks more luxurious from inside than my BMW, but driving and controlling is none compared to BMW)...... BTW, if you have a family with big dudes (6'1 and above), then rear seating might become an issue.....

Great concept. Poorly executed

This hard top convertible meets a lot of requirements. Attractive, sporty, quick, fun to drive, excellent hardtop retraction for convertible mode and reasonably affordable. But this car's reliability has been an issue. Several part failures during the warranty period, including fuel pump, seat belts and turbo. Can't imagine what these would have cost to repair if failure had happened shortly after the warranty expired. There is some noticeable turbo lag; not as bad as other turbo cars I have owned (Saab). The turbo had an oil leak in the mechanical return of the oil following engine shut down. Not sure why this wasn't an electronic system. Also, the electronic display system will not connect to Apple maps (the next year does). Unlike Tesla, which would have sent a software update to allow this, BMW requires a whole different system. Just poor engineering.

hard top convertable

very quiet for a convertible and trunk space is above average. Don't use many of the safety features. Like lane change warning etc.. Back seat almost unusable. Neck heater great for late fall trips.

Great car, but could use a few improvements.

This is my second BMW convertible. My first was a 2008 328i. This new 2017 430i convertible is a very nice car with some improvements over the 2008 model but some disappointments also. First the good news. The 2 liter 4 cylinder dual turbo engine should satisfy most drivers. It has great pick up and is perfectly mated to the 8 gear auto transmission and greats 25% better fuel economy than my old 2008. The fit and finish is excellent and I feel confident this car will be just as reliable and trouble free as the 2008. The navigation is excellent, as is the voice commands. Gets it right 99% of the time. Now the bad news. After 9 years I expected a few more improvements. The standard sport seats (which I had on my previous car) give great back support but are definitely too firm on the bottom portion of the seat. The blinkers on the side view mirrors are a nice touch, but are distracting at night. The dashboard layout is very familiar, but also a bit dated. For some crazy reason BMW decided to move the cruise control from a stalk behind the steering wheel to buttons on the steering wheel and in the process remove the power button for the radio from the steering wheel. I use the radio everyday. I rarely use the cruise control. The steering is lighter, but I think a bit too light. Brakes are also a bit too soft, compared to my 2008. All in all, a very nice car that I doubt will disappoint many people. I test drove other convertibles and came back to BMW. Choices are few if you want a 4 seater convertible.

Fun Car

The convertible is fun to drive in good weather with the top down. What pleasantly surprised me is how comfortable the car is in cold weather. With heated seats, the hardtop convertible feels warm and delightful on cold days. I continue to enjoy the car years after I bought it. It drives well. I enjoy the exterior and interior styling of the car. I am happy that it is mine. I have cold weather tires for it for the cold weather months. A lady came up to me a few days ago and said: “Cute car. Do you want to trade?” I smiled and said: “No. I like the car.” Update: Now that I have had the car for 9 months, my appreciation for the car has grown. Except for a small glitch on one day (which was corrected in one visit by the dealer), the car has been very pleasurable to own and drive. I am glad I bought it. I am proud to drive it and show it to my friends. My friends like it too. One of my friends said it was the most exciting car he had ever seen. The BMW dealership has given me nice loaner cars when I brought my car in for maintenance, e.g. a beautiful BMW convertible. Update: Now that I have had the car several years and have driven about 17,000 miles, it continues to be a joy to drive. It has been reliable, fun to own, and I am proud to own it. During the winter months, I am primarily driving a Mercedes Benz SUV. When the weather improves in the Spring, I plan to drive the BMW more than I do in the winter.

Sun! Breezes! Fun!

Fun to drive. Hugs the road in comfort mode and sports mode is even more fun. Love the sport seats--the extension makes it so comfortable for my long legs. The electronics aren't that intuitive--I'm learning but all the dealers have "BMW Geniuses" on staff to train you--I just haven't had the time yet to go in. Only disappointment is that mine doesn't have the premium package, which means I don't have keyless entry like I'm used to. Not a huge deal--just don't like having to dig for my keys all the time.

Estoril blue beauty

In my honeymoon phase. Drove out of state to PA to pick up this totally loaded 2016 435i X drive. I test drove the 4 cylinder. Trading in my 335, I wasn't happy driving the 4. It was sluggish and heavy. Not with the v6. Highly recommend the M Sport package. This car was loaded ( MSport, Nav, surround cameras, entertainment, etc) with everything I would have ordered, except the price and financing couldn't be matched by waiting on a 2017. It truly is the best of both worlds. Top up zero noise. Top down, wow! :-). If you can still find a 2016, equipped the way you want, then buy it. The warranty is longer, too. BMW moved to 3 years for 2017.

Sexy and powerful ... crappy run-flat tires

*** 24 months of ownership update April 2019*** I have now owned my 440xi for two years and have 30,000 miles on it. The car has been completely reliable, not a single issue that has needed attention. That is a first for any BMW that I have owned. Frankly, at this point the magic has worn off this car and the annoying things keep getting more annoying. After 12 years of BMW ownership, this is likely my last one. The entertainment system is quirky and unreliable for streaming music from my iPhone. Half the time the car won't pair wiith the phone so I loaded music files directly onto the built in hard drive, but using playlists is limited and complicated to set up. The infotainment system in my RAM 1500 is superior to the BMW system in most ways. As I complained in an earlier update, the run-flat tires are a major defect. Run-flats on our X5 are one thing, but on a car that is intended for sporty driving its just daft. The 440xi is not a bad car, but in my opinion as a long-time owner of BMWs, not a compelling value or a compelling drive ***[18 month update, October 2018] Update ... after 28k miles and a year and a half of ownership my original assessment largely holds. The good: this is the first BMW that I have owned that has been reliable and issue free. The car is a head turner and I get a lot of complements. It is fun to drive. The “could be better”: the run flat tires truly suck and take away ALOT from the performance potential of this car. Wet traction with the all seasons is poor, and dry traction and handling is mediocre at best. What’s the point of all that engineering under the hood if the crappy tires can’t anchor it to the pavement. We put a lot of miles on this car, but it is not really all that comfortable for long trips, fine as a daily commuter. Finally, the leather seats are not holding up and BMW has refused to address. The finish is cracked and pealing at the side bolsters and this is considered normal wear and tear. Right. It’s a fun car. There are a lot of fun cars available these days. ***[Original review in April 2017]*** I fell in love with the BMW F32 4 series the first time I saw one. Long sexy lines, low and wide stance, long drop hood and long sloping rear. The new inline 6 cylinder engine is a major refinement for what is probably the most successful sport sedan/coupe in automotive history. When you start the car, it gives you a heart pumping exhaust note. Not obnoxiously throaty, but simply exudes power. The 8 speed auto transmission is silky smooth as a BMW should be, easily shifts down when power is needed. Handling is tight and controlled, the low and wide stance coupled with nearly even weight balance front to rear means this car can corner almost anything. You really appreciate the extra torque when you punch it on the highway, no hesitation, just presses you into the back of the seats. Awesome. I have owned three BMWs and the technology is finally catching up. The new iDrive version is intuitive and much quicker than earlier versions. I actually use the voice commands; they are intuitive and much easier to use than in past. I particularly like the connected drive app to send destinations from my iPhone to the Nav system in the car so when I get in, my destination is ready to go. I also like that Pandora and Amazon music are fully integrated to the app so I can stream music directly through the car and dump SiriusXM once the free trial is over. The front sport seats are super comfortable and adjustable, while the back seat is not really usable for adults (short trips only). It's a 2-door coupe, I didn't buy it for the rear seats. I'm 6'-2" and very comfy in the cockpit. Ok, for the not so great - for 2017 BMW changed their included maintenance to only 3 yrs 36k miles which means three oil changes. No more wiper blades, you have to buy a $600 upgrade to get wiper blades in the first 36k and another boat load of cash to extend the maintenance another year. It's a real downgrade for buyers and makes BMW much less attractive to own. If you have a 36 month lease, this doesn't affect you. I have the same complaints as everyone else - run flat tires suck, are expensive to replace and harsh to ride on, the electronic steering is mushy compared to the old days although every car comes with it these days, because the suspension is taught the ride can be harsh especially on crappy Northeastern roads. It is a great car, pure joy to drive, sexy and powerful. Definitely worth considering despite the maintenance plan change.

Every 2Dr Sports Coupe should be this good

Definitely go for the x-Drive all wheel drive option, even in Southern states, as the almost .5 second 0-60 improvement over the rear-wheel drive model is more than worth it. Plus the all wheel drive provides you with the best winter driving traction and control that you can get.

Nice Car Turns into a Nightmare!

The engine in my 2016 BMW 435i literally blew-up and now BMW is refusing to honor the warranty. The repair shop claims they found water spots in the air intake plenum. They claim that due to recent heavy rains and driving through "a puddle" 5 weeks earlier caused a piston connecting rod to break through the side of the engine block! This is even though the car ran perfectly for the entire 5 week period and 2500 miles after the rain event without even the slightest vibration. What they couldn't explain, at all, was how enough water made it past the air cleaner without getting the air cleaner wet or damaged! The rain event did short a couple electronic systems as error codes indicated and put the car into a "limp-home" mode, but were simply cleared and reset after I had them checked. Interestingly, the service advisor and a service manager kept aggressively encouraging me to "just file a claim with your insurance carrier" and that "people have been doing it there all the time"! It seemed like a "go-to" line for these guys even though any competent mechanic would conclude that this engine did not "blow" due to water damage! I checked with a few! It has been my experience here that BMW, through their authorized representatives, will do anything possible to avoid responsibility in honoring their warranty including encouraging their customers to commit insurance fraud. At least this was the "feeling" I was left with after my conversations with the service staff at the particular BMW dealer in Long Beach, California.

Lots of fun in a ride!

This is a great car for anyone who rarely uses the back seat. The optional M sports package gives the car peppy acceleration and tight handling, making it everything BMW drivers live about the cars! But for 5 series owners, the car seemed a little too crowded in the arm rest and lacked the thigh support seats that make long rides comfortable. You have to add anther premium option package to get the comfy seats 5 series drivers expect.

Riding on Rails

The handling of my 428iX is superb. In dry conditions you can point and go. In wet it is exceptional. Four modes of driving make this car fun to drive and if necessary, economical. Engine must be kept in higher RPM to enjoy the power. Hesitant off the line for a brief second then hold on. Paddle shifters make it fun to drive in sharp turns, etc. Heads up display is excellent. Voice commands are excellent both in radio, phone and navigation. 33mpg on the highway at 65mph. Can run on 89 octane if necessary. The ultimate driving machine.

Exhilarating !

Most fun I have had driving since driving my BMW 320i many years ago!

Drove across the U.S.

The Performance Sport Mode was GREAT for Flat Highs & Mountains. The Extended Leg Prop was wonderful for such a long ride (1500 miles there & 1500 miles back home). The Retractable Roof is an extra wonder to behold just for the heck of it. The Gas Mileage was phenomenal when NOT in Sport Mode. The Sport Seats are a TRUE BLESSING (compared to my Uncomfortable New Mustang). Even though the TRUNK SPACE is limited due to the Retractable Roof, the backseat (with NO passengers) was more than enough for duffle-type bags. The maneuverability in crazy traffic was amongst distracted & overbearing drivers was spot-on and like magic. I owned a 325i Bimmer from 1985 to 1991 and have had many other sports & muscle cars & luxury cars prior to this 428i. There is always something Better, but this 428i fits what I need it for. For me; "It's A Keeper".

Grab one while you can 435i

My wife purchased a gently used 9k miles.2016 435i , she insisted on a 6 Cylinder, really pretty car, kind of a smoky metallic black, with bad ass factory wheels, black interior, this car is not for a fool, very powerful fun car with tons of headroom. the stereo is crisp and clean strong very impressive, even a short trip around the block is exciting to go for a ride. Better hurry the straight six turbos are being fazed out by 4 cyl models. The strength of the six we prefer, smoother interstate power. Worth a drive. After my Wife purchased the car I was jealous and I went and grabbed the 430 coupe, 4 cyl. And the 4 cyl has plenty of power, to my surprise the smaller turbo does the job well, gets out of its way, a couple of second delay if you smashed the gas, but soon you forget about the delay and now your trying to slow down. Not an animal like the six, but what seems to be a calmer experience with the 4 cyl. Kinda more of a daily driver. The balanced platform of the 4 series is the cars best feature, stable, forgiving, a real road car. The M4 makes me curious, and I was told the M2 is the best out there, so now the family of the BMW’s 435-430 Will continue to be our go to cars until my lease is up in a year stay turned

Classy car

Florida being the lightning capital, I want a hard top convertible when weather doesn't allow for the top to be down.. There aren't too many in the marketplace. BMW's other convertibles, 2 and 8 series and Z4 are all soft tops. You want 6 cylinders to power this slightly heavy car. The M package (as opposed to buying an M model outright) gives it an extra oomph and distinction. The poor man's M, if you will. The car has a beautiful line and when the top s down, it's just classy. Enjoy life, get wind in your face.

Great car

Drives great and feels the way a BMW should feel. So far my only concern is that the quality of the standard fake-leather seats does quite meet my expectations, and then the front door in the coupe version is so long that getting out when parked next to someone is often a challenge.

A true BMW Marvel

A true luxury with comfort, class and excellent dynamics. The 4 series is a piece of art, technology, comfort and excellent dynamics.

Fast&Great Handling

Made extremely well. The rear wheel drive has fantastic handling; car flat with no lean on curves. Seats are very comfortable on a long trip and have good support. Comfort Mode drives great, Sport Mode is very high performance. Electronics are very effective and intuitive. Trunk is narrow and small.

Second 4 series in 8 month

Euro BMW Engine for the FAT American!

OK. Bottom line up front. I went from a fire breathing hairy chested mustached slightly off center BMW 135i with its twin turbo (1 turbo per 3 cans) 6 speed (proper gear box) 2 door sports car that didn't have heated seats or heated steering wheel or rear view camera because real men don't need heated seats and they really don't care what is behind them because...well odds are you passed it at well over the speed limit.... which lasted me to 145k miles....tooooooo a......new to me 2017 BMW 425xi. Now let's compare the two cars! 1) When you turned on your 135i in the morning in your garage your knuckles grew fuzzy and your voice dropped an octave....that engine woke up! And it woke up every fat American in your little town who had fallen asleep at 6pm with a cheeseburger in hand and 40oz of diet coke next to them! When the 425 wakes up.....it's like drinking a cup of DD....it's "coffee"....as in it's a drink that looks like coffee....may even smell like coffee and it comes in 40oz bladder buster cups but no respecting man would ever call it a cup of coffee. 2) When you sat IN the 135i YOU SAT IN THE 135...I had the cheap fake black leather seats that were THE BEST SEATS I had ever sat in in my entire life! Everyone who ever sat in my car said the same thing..."HOLY HELL I feel like I'm a fighter pilot!". I now sit in the 425 xi with its heated leather seats.....at 210lb i'm a "skinny" American and well this thing is as wide as a dad jeans wearing Chevy from Iowa who has a thing for mayo in large jars, stuffing on everything. it has "bolsters" as in someone said they were there but well these seats are as flat as Kansas. You can manspread all you want in this car to hold your 140oz bladder buster from DD and become an average 300lb American and fit right in to these seats! 3) Transmission...I went from a 6 speed 3 pedal machine that switched gears like a sniper taking out rolly pollies at your local piglywigly for the joy of it to a 8 speed (really 8!) automatic / sport transmission that really thinks it's connected to an inline 6 with two turbos rather than the 2L 4 caned handbag that sits under the hood. And how does it change gears you ask? Well ever let a Playstation vaping skinny jeans wearing 15yo drive a manual transmission and wonder if and when the engine mounts were going to call it quits? Well that's about how well this "sport" transmission shifts from first to second....it will spill your drink..it will make you wonder if the engine just gave up...it will make you wonder from what online university did the mechanical engineer that developed this transmission graduate from and who was his father so that he would be put in charge of this part of the car. If I were one of the CEO's at BMW, I would politely get out from behind my desk grab a very large heavy iron bar walk down the hall to where this pathetic excuse of an engineer in his skinny jeans sucking on a vape pen while listening to One Direction was sitting and use said heavy iron bar to destroy his office and his prized collection of exotic vape pens and his scale models of WRX's and then just stand there and watch him cry. This is how much I hate this transmission....it's not personal.......well I'm sorry no it really is! Also I would probably throw the little bastard out of a second story window a few times.....why? Because this transmission upshifts harshly and at 2k RPM....yes you read that right...this is a 2L turbo engine mated to a transmission that likes to upshift at the point that the turbo starts producing boost.......why would you do that I say why would you think this was a good idea I say......then I would see all the vape pens and the skinny jeans and realize oh yeah that we hired this engineer because his dad is probably one of the members of the board and well his last job was with a little French car company. But it's not all bad! The fit and finish on the new to me 2017 is actually good! the IDrive doesn't wish to take us though the rougher parts of town to pick up copious amounts of narcotics and start bare knuckle fist fights like my old 135 use to do...and having an AWD car is nice.....but what would you know...you just Uber Eat's a bucket of KFC with extra mashed potatoes and coleslaw with extra mayo from down the street so that you could be big enough to fill out this front seat! So over all very nice car, very well assembled and in white it actually looks very good during sunrise and sunset...has some very nice lines that just seem to show up and make you smile much like my old 135i did. The 2L turbo is a nice engine and the 8 speed transmission is nice when you drive it and push it past 3k rpm. But here is the deal if you had a 6Cyl BMW before and are thinking of saving the world and going with the 4..........don't....it's just not worth it........I'm not saying i'll sell this car tomorrow and upgrade to the 6....i'll learn how to grow up Car was sold after 4 years and 40k miles....transmission issue.

Good but not good enough

I lease a 428i and was looking to lease a 430i. I did an apples to apples comparison to a Mercedes C300. The BMW came out a few dollars cheaper at MSRP, but I got a better deal with Mercedes AND the Mercedes has a much nicer interior and more comfortable seats.

Test drive before you buy!

This vehicle is a wonderful and truly German engineering at its very best!! 4/50 free maintenance is offered free of charge . Thats one reasons what I base my decision in buying BMW.

BMW

2016 BMW 435ix convertible test

My 428i Open Top

I love my car, from the color, pearl white, to the peanutbutter interior. The awesome design of the hardtop, she looks amazing with the top down. I get the best of both worlds, The beauty of a sophisticated coupe, and the sporty look of a convertible!!! It handles like a dream!!!!

Nice car

Love that it’s a hard top convertible! Nice looking fun car! Very comfortable seats too!

Absolutely timeless & modern design.

These 4-series (known as the F32) are absolutely fantastic. The N55 inline 6 engine is amazing and very reliable. Be sure to do oil changes every 3000 - 5000 miles. I've been doing this (along with letting the car warm-up properly) and have 170,000 miles on mine! It still runs like new! These engines and the world-famous ZF8 have been known to run to 300,000+ miles. Of course, it is a performance luxury coupe! You should always expect the same maintenance items present with those cars. Valve cover, water pump, fluid changes, belts, etc. If you are a neglectful mouth-breather, this car will punish you for it. If you are a responsible man/woman looking for a stylish and powerful luxury coupe, and can afford to properly maintain it, you will see what I mean years down the road. These cars are simply brilliant.

Small Version of the 6 Series

Car is very well manufactured. Fit and finish is very good. Interior material could be better especially the seats.