Used 2017 Dodge Viper

CARLOS: I'm. Carlos. That's Jay. We are driving a Dodge Viper because we haven't done enough of that already. JAY: You had a little bit of a road trip, right? It was about 2,700 miles. CARLOS: 2,700 miles. But you did 3,100, 3,200? JAY: 3,100 something, yeah. CARLOS: So you are the man amongst us. And we know you're the man. JAY: I can't feel my butt or my back anymore. CARLOS: So what we did, is I drove this car, this is Edmunds long term Dodge Viper. I drove this basically across the country, coast to coast, to North Carolina. And then Jay flew out and drove it back. Now we're back in Santa Monica. We're going to take a little cruise in this car and talk about things we like, things we didn't like. JAY: All of the Vipers road trip-friendly, friendly qualities. Which one was the one that convinced you to take this on this trip? CARLOS: Scott saying hey, you should take the Viper out to North Carolina. JAY: That's the best road trip quality, yeah. CARLOS: No, I mean, OK. The worse an idea is, the more you want to do it, right? Bad ideas have a certain appeal. And driving a Viper across the country is a bad idea. This is going to be so bad. It's so hot, it's uncomfortable, and all that. But you, kind of, want to do it. Because it's a bad idea. JAY: Especially a car that's this ridiculous. CARLOS: Yes. JAY: When you tell people you drove cross-country in a Viper, they're, like, oh, that's so awesome. And you're, like, well, when you actually do it, you realize that maybe it's less awesome, but that makes it more awesome. CARLOS: Exactly. I've always been hesitant about the Viper. But after that drive, I was, like, all right, I get it. I get where it's coming from now. It's a bit much, but if that's what you're looking for-- if you want the feel of the Lamborghini but with an American car. JAY: A bit much, I think, is understating it. A bit much is what defines this car. CARLOS: Exactly, yeah. JAY: The car is so over-the-top and obnoxious. But if it was not over-the-top and obnoxious, it wouldn't be a Viper. CARLOS: Exactly. That's what makes it the Viper. There is no driving experience like this anymore. You don't really hop into a new car these days and deal with the sort of stuff you have to deal with here. JAY: Well, for sure. Even just getting in the car, this Is probably one of the most, aside from a [INAUDIBLE] or something like that-- ingress and egress, not a strong point. You really got to fold your legs up to your chin to get into the thing, especially if you're over six feet tall. CARLOS: Yeah, I do it like a diver goes into the water, where I just, sort of, sit on the door sill. JAY: [INAUDIBLE]? CARLOS: Yeah, exactly. CARLOS: I sit on the door sill, and just lean back and fall into the seat. This is a fantastic shift. JAY: The shifter's great. CARLOS: You know when you're actually controlling a rod inside the transmission and it's actually moving mechanical stuff-- that's a good feeling. JAY: And even though it's controlling 9 billion foot pounds of torque, it actually moves through the gates with some finesse. And you'll never miss a shift in this car, ever, CARLOS: I miss shifts in Corvettes constantly, especially the two to three. But you never do it in here because this has so much positive feedback between gears. There's never vagueness or anything. It's a terrific shifter. Even this engine-- the most surprising thing about this V10 is that it isn't like a low-end torque monster. It has a lot of low-end torque, but it really comes alive in the higher rpm's. JAY: Yeah, when you wind this thing out to 5,000, 5,500, it feels like it's getting a second wind, like Vtech kicks in. CARLOS: It feels like it's getting on cam. JAY: Well, it, kind of, is. CARLOS: It feels like there's a big cam in there and it's just-- JAY: There's a very, very big cam in here. CARLOS: But really, the top end response out of this thing is really surprising. And it adds to the drama of driving this thing hard. Because when you're wide open throttle at 4,000 rpm in end gear, it's an event. And then when it gets more thrilling, and the acceleration force gets even crazier as the motor revs, as the speeds keep jumping up, it's more of a oh, whoa, OK, OK. JAY: And the speed just piles on so much. CARLOS: Oh, my god. JAY: The gearing is so tall in this that if you're hammering through third gear, you need to be on a race track. CARLOS: Yes. JAY: Because you're going so ridiculously fast . CARLOS: This car gets a lot of positive attention, by the way. Nobody hates this car. JAY: I really feel like this is a thing that binds our country together. I honestly believe that because I drive it-- CARLOS: The Viper is the glue of this country. JAY: It really is. It's the fabric of our nation, and you get to drive it, and it has side pipes. CARLOS: Yes, it has side pipes. JAY: It definitely has side pipes. CARLOS: Side pipes are awesome. JAY: Because no matter where you go with this car-- the gas station in Kentucky or a restaurant in Tennessee-- if anyone sees it, they're going to talk to you, but it's not going to be in an ostentatious way. CARLOS: Yes. JAY: It's always very positive. CARLOS: Yeah. JAY: Everyone's super stoked about this car. The Viper is the universal American thing. CARLOS: You've made a choice when you buy this car to do something manly. It's like buying that Hummer over there. Or it's like buying a Lamborghini LM002. You're not buying it because it's a plush, nice experience. You're buying it because there is some intimidation to it. There is some brawn-- no, not some, that's all the car is. And it's just like in-your-face manliness constantly. JAY: One thing about this engine is it's the worst sounding engine that exists. It sounds terrible. But it has so much horsepower and so much torque that you don't care. CARLOS: The tamber is terrible, but there is a certain character. It is so gruff, and it is so ugly-sounding, that you're almost, kind of, like, OK. JAY: It's like getting punched in the ear by a kangaroo repeatedly. CARLOS: You're dealing with such a monstrous amount of torque. What, is it 640 horse [INAUDIBLE] 600, somewhere around there. It's an immense amount of power. You have so much drive train underneath here. And you have so much tire that you don't want to shock that stuff. You want to meter that out very carefully. JAY: I just feel like the throttle response is a little bit blunt and dull. CARLOS: Yes. JAY: And part of that's the gearing too. This thing is crazy tall geared. You start off in first gear, and the first time you drive this car, I think everyone would check and make sure, am I in third? It feels like I'm in third because of the way it's pulling out of the hole. This is third gear, right? No, it's first. It's that tall. CARLOS: The clutch feel is slightly different. JAY: When you say different you mean there's less of it. CARLOS: There's certainly less clutch on this. I tested this car last week, and I may have let some anger out on the tires while trying to do the slalom in it. JAY: Hey, if you're going to be angry in a car-- CARLOS: This is one of those cars that lets out anger on tires like nothing else. Let's make a lot of smoke in rapid fashion and at very high speeds. JAY: That's true, yeah. It's got so much torque. CARLOS: The handling balance is interesting. You get aside the roughness, you get aside the intimidation, this is a nicely balanced car. It's pretty neutral at the limit. There's a little bit of stability in the nose that you want with a high power, rear weight. Actually this is 50-50 weight distribution. With a high power, front engine, rear drive car, you want a little bit of stability in the nose. And this has that, but it really has a nice balance off throttle that really helps you control the car around. The grip is really nice, and frustrating to talk about it when we're just driving through Malibu and there's stopped traffic everywhere. JAY: If you want to exercise this car, there's no possible way to do it on a public road. You just can't do it without being completely antisocial. CARLOS: Or going to jail. JAY: And going to-- and/or. CARLOS: And/or. JAY: So, yeah, you definitely need a race track for this thing. CARLOS: You don't want to be surrounded by other cars when you're driving this thing fast unless you have a lot of familiarity with where the car is, how big it is. We want to be able to trust this car's location. I think that comes with driving it a lot, for sure. I drove it like a wimp across the country. I put it in sixth gear, cruise control, and then tried to zen out all the road noise. JAY: With that many miles, the likelihood of something going wrong with the law enforcement types is very high. You're operating in a target rich environment here. CARLOS: Back at those gas stations, everybody was asking, like, oh, so you must be making good time, huh? Like, no, making really average time. JAY: Making Camry time. CARLOS: Not making good time at all. I tell you what though, freeway on-ramps and off-ramps, lots of fun. JAY: Now you also had an experience with wind noise that I don't think I experienced. CARLOS: So the windows don't seem to seal properly. Hand-built car, right? So I bought some yellow painter's tape and added some extra tape to the top of the window, the frameless window, so it would seal a bit better, and that seemed to solve it. But this car on long distance driving, which, again, is not what this car is meant to do-- it's unfair to criticize this car for doing bad things on long distance driving. JAY: Just an observation. CARLOS: Just an observation. JAY: Not a criticism. I couldn't hang with the door rattle. So for a little bit of background, when this car was delivered, or shortly after it was delivered, we observed a very prominent rattle that came out of the door. It sounded kind of like a handful of change in a dryer. CARLOS: Yes, absolutely. JAY: And it's about 18 inches from the driver's left ear. And it's constant. So when you're driving on the road, it's not as though it jingles when you hit a bump, it's jingling-- CARLOS: Constantly. JAY: --all the time. All the time. This guy, bless his heart, drove all the way across this great nation, and it's big, with that rattle going in the door. I got in the car, and after an hour and a half, I was tearing my hair out. So what I did, I stopped in Knoxville at my friend Zach's house, and Zach has tools and a garage. CARLOS: And we are men. JAY: And we took apart the door panel, and we found what was wrong. And it was a missing fastener on an exposed stud. And we picked up something off the garage floor that fit and used an eye lock nut, put it down, buttoned up the door. No more rattle. Perfect. CARLOS: That's the Viper experience JAY: It really is. And of course I broke a bunch of door clips in the process. I noticed that you had some microfiber towels. What was that about on your trip? In the car, and it's not to wipe it down. We did not clean this car at all for the entire trip. CARLOS: So these armrests are fine for less than four hours, But after four hours, you've got your two hands moving and you're resting your elbows on the armrests, it actually hurt. And I have a pretty good tolerance for pain. And after a while, I was, like, I can't. I can't do this anymore. So when I bought the tape, I also bought some microfiber towels that I taped to the armrests to help soften them up a little bit. And I feel like it helped. I feel like it made the drive a little bit more tolerable. JAY: So you have sissy armrests for your elbows? CARLOS: Yeah, I am a sissy. That's what it is. I'm a giant sissy. That's how everybody is going to take that. This is not that big of a car, surprisingly. JAY: It's really not. When you park it next to an SUV or something, the thing is completely dwarfed. CARLOS: Exactly. I think a 911, a modern 911, is longer, I would imagine. JAY: I think so. But the proportions-- it looks so dramatic. This is probably one of the best looking cars on the road, honestly. CARLOS: It looks awesome. JAY: It looks so good. It looks so cool. CARLOS: It looks so good. And that's what's great. As not being a professional photographer or even a good photographer, the strategy for taking good photos with a Viper on a road trip is just put it in front of anything. This is the last American naturally aspirated American super car. JAY: Probably so. You heard it here first. CARLOS: Think about it. Everybody's going to forced induction. Everybody's going turbo, dropping displacement. This is one of a dying breed. JAY: It really is. CARLOS: And I really respect it for that. This is a nice interior in terms of material, in terms of interface. I like the digital display. This is a really attractive place to be. And especially with some of the higher end leather packages when you get to the GTS interior package with the Laguna leather, it's gorgeous. JAY: Yeah, nice looking. CARLOS: It's gorgeous. JAY: And I'm trying to remember the previous gen seats. Were they pretty-- CARLOS: I don't remember them being terrific. JAY: I want to say that they were overstuffed, but I don't really remember. CARLOS: That makes me laugh every time. This is the best Viper they've ever done. I think that's without a doubt an easy thing to say. JAY: For sure, yeah. CARLOS: This is way more fun than previous. It's faster, better performing, and all that. What would you like for them to change? JAY: That's a really good question is, where does the Viper go from here? CARLOS: Exactly. JAY: Everyone's going to a forced induction setup. Can you do a forced induction engine in a Viper and have it still be a Viper, or must it have a V10? Is that the defining characteristic of a Viper? I think that's a tough question. I wouldn't want to be the guy making that call because it's not easy. CARLOS: I want to drive this through all the nice parts of LA. You see 911s in LA. You see every sports car you can imagine in LA. You don't see Vipers in LA. This is one of the more unique things you can buy for $100 grand, which is, what you're getting for that money is pretty incredible. This is faster than the comparable 911, the comparable Corvette. I would not be surprised if this put down better lap times with a skilled driver at the helm. JAY: It's so capable that to extract the most out of it, yeah, you've really got to be on your game. Is there a more badass car than a Viper in terms of just still badassery? CARLOS: If you put tires on a Saturn 5-- JAY: That would be close. CARLOS: That would be close. It wouldn't be there, it would be close. JAY: Almost there. CARLOS: I think the rocket that took us to the moon, that would be close. JAY: One thing also-- you've mentioned the ACR and the splitter in the wing, and all the aero-- CARLOS: Yes. JAY: I didn't scrape the nose as much in that car. CARLOS: Isn't that crazy? JAY: I thought I was going to be scraping the nose everywhere. And I think I maybe even scraped it once. CARLOS: I don't know how that's possible. JAY: Because it certainly looks low. Yeah, there it is. CARLOS: And back to edmunds.com We're good. JAY: Well, it's going to get dark in here soon. So I don't know if you're going to see us. But hope you enjoyed-- CARLOS: Thanks for driving with me. JAY: Yeah, thank you.