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2001 Mercedes-Benz S-Class Consumer Discussions
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High End Luxury Cars
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Re: And...continuing to stay on topic [tagman]
Tag, I don't know if you remember or not, but back in the summer, Merc and I, during the much-heated debates of the LS' redesign, brought up Lexus pricing stragegy of late. This opened up a whole can of WTF? And of course, we all never fully agreed on anything. Well the time has come, and as predicted, the new LS460(especially in L) is no longer that "value-conscience, sensible" buy that ... Read More
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Re: merc [tagman]
Yeah I saw all that, but I had no idea that a comparo had been done when I first started joining in the melee. Of course I vote for the SL550! I have to say I was really surprised by the placement of the LS460. The previous LS430 and LS400 have been winners at C&D for years so to have hugely superior LS460L place last was quite a shock to me. ... Read More
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Re: New S 450 4matic [syswei]
Maybe they also want to avoid the embarassament of the S450 being tested in comparos against the LS460, so want to wait until after S vs LS comparos are published. Yeah I'm sure you'd go for that. ;) I think in all honestly they were shocked at the LS going from 290/278hp to 380hp in one re-design. The LS has never made that big of a jump in hp before. Up ... Read More
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Re: DCX/MB [houdini1]
Allow me to post the history of the merger: Daimler-Benz merger: Chrysler merged in 1998 with Daimler-Benz to form DaimlerChrysler AG. This was initially touted as a merger of equals, but within a couple of years the truth was evident: it was a buyout of Chrysler by Daimler-Benz, with the latter being very much the dominant partner. As if on cue, Chrysler went into another of its financial tailspins soon after ... Read More
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Re: Actually, [syswei]
I haven't really been reading what all the fuss is about with the surveys this time around, but I do think JDP should have broken the IQS into two surveys because certain brands (like BMW) rank differently when you break down the two categories they used this year: A little something I saw on MBWorld.org, someone posted the breakout for the study: Auto news More rankings June 8, 2006 Email this ... Read More
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Interesting reading............
Been on a long Memorial Day vaction. What did I miss? hpowders - BMW should drop the 7-Series? I had to do a doubletake at the user ID when I read that post. No, they can't drop the 7-Series. As others have stated BMW's overall image would suffer relative to Mercedes' without the 7-Series. The 7 is really BMW's only car that competes in the high-end space with Mercedes on a ... Read More
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Re: Merc1 [merc1]
You'll have to forgive some of our resident Lexusfans, they'll try to put a business spin to everything like the cars themselves don't matter at all. Its all about the business and how MB execs are so worried and can't sleep at night and the always pending demise of Mercedes-Benz. It has been this way for years now. The Lexus LS is coming to compete with one car, the S-Class...not the ... Read More
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Re: Merc1 [blkhemi]
You'll have to forgive some of our resident Lexusfans, they'll try to put a business spin to everything like the cars themselves don't matter at all. Its all about the business and how MB execs are so worried and can't sleep at night and the always pending demise of Mercedes-Benz. It has been this way for years now. The Lexus LS is coming to compete with one car, the S-Class...not the ... Read More
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Re: Merc [drfill]
The SC doesn't offer the pop-up rollbar, or the performance-oriented acrynyms the Benz does, but it's interior is more luxurious (you have a tristed way of admitting this), and offered the same speed and power for 3 years. A quarter-mile charge was pretty much a dead heat! So in other words it is missing a safety item that even a VW Beetle Cabrio has? Pretty awful for 65K, IMO. The SL550 ... Read More
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Re: Merc [designman]
"By the way, for someone who has a taste for the likes of Jags and Maseratis, I don’t get your fondness for the SC400. In my opinion it is as plain and uninspiring as it gets... as interesting as a bar of ivory soap. I certainly think the SC430 has more styling booty and panache.: Woah, I never said that I think the SC400 is the best looking car ever, or ... Read More
Mercedes-Benz S-Class
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Re: 2001 S430 [bocchun]
I once was one of Mercedes biggest fan. After owning several Mercedes, I finally learned and bought others. I've learned that only thing with Mercedes is the name and the prestige. Have lots of friends who would never buy another Mercedes. When I was in the market for a suv, I bought a new (05) Range Rover. Luv it, glad I didn't buy a G500. We just bought 06 750Li. Didn't ... Read More
High End Luxury Cars
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Re: Plain as day [tagman]
Tagman, I respectfully disagree with your assessment. I still own my 1992 LS400 and will not part with it period. I don't need to justify anything: My experience with Lexus Customer Service and their Service Department has been very poor. How would you like it if you've invested $200K in a certain brand and they treat you poorly when you need them? That's not called Service. They were not loyal to ... Read More
Mercedes-Benz S-Class
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Re: 2001 S430 [mobydoc]
I have a 2000 S500 and it currently have 55k miles on it. However, I have a horrible experience with it.. Since I own it, the repairs total over $25k (most of them were covered by warranty), the repairs items included (what I can remember on top of my head): door assist (broke 4 or 5 times), passages windows motor broke 3 times, Command system was repaired twice and finally they ... Read More
High End Luxury Cars
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Re: sv7887 [lexusguy]
Lexusguy, I agree with you. My point is the quality of the switches themselves. The next time you see an original LS400 (90-94) get inside and feel how the turn signal and wiper stalks feel. Then look at the window switches and especially the dimmer for the dash. You are correct to say Lexus has put higher quality materials in their cars. There is a ton more wood in my LS430 ... Read More
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My '06 Jaguar XJ Super V8
I just wanted to chime in with my great experience with my '06 XJ Super V8. I am not a die hard Jaguar fan, have not dreamed about owning a Jag all my life. I did not intend to buy a Jaguar this time around. But having done so, I am really happy. Here is my story. I had owned a two Cadillac Eldorado STS from 1995 through 2000. I enjoyed ... Read More
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Merc
Wow! I am so surprised at you! You, of all people, know better than that! You know how hard it is to build a V8, especially to Lexus/Mercedes/BMW levels of smoothness and durability. You know Lexus isn't just throwing 50-60HP onto a car at the end of testing, just to amke a point, or keep up with the Joneses. They haven't done that before, so why start now? You KNOW they ... Read More
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Re: to ljflx - good opinions and $$$ [ljflx]
My point wasn't a personal dig at your "tastes". I just didn't (don't) understand how the new S could be so ugly when the 1995-2000 LS400 and 2001-2006 LS430 weren't. A style question, nothing more. As much as I've said negatively about the current CLK before its facelift and the Maybach, you of all people should know I wouldn't cut a truly ugly Benz product a break because it is a ... Read More
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Re: Looks like we've found a chink in Merc's armour? [callmedrfill]
Having the Maybach and S-Class virtually share taillights, or the C-Class and S-Class of a generation ago, is not a good thing, as it says cost-cutting to the trained eye. Yeah this is a good example. Now if this were true, why doesn't it mean the same thing for Lexus? Lexus is doing the same thing with design from model to model. Anyway, the cars you mention don't have the exact ... Read More
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Re: Copying, Gimmicks etc.... [brightness04]
All of that about 1906 goes back a way bit before my time. Lexus' original LS400 was rounder than the German iron of the day for sure, but the overall presentation made you think "Mercedes". Sure the individual details were different, but the whole thing screamed Mercedes overall. Thats why Lexus got the copy rep from not only the press, but buyers alike. The 2001 LS430 only made it worse. Now ... Read More
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Re: HEADLINE: LEXUS now tries to build a BMW [ljflx]
Never said that and yes I still think they'll be passed in status in the the next 3-5 years (which is what I did say). Ok, now its 3-5 years instead of the previous 3 you gave back in 2001! Ok. Either way, ain't gonna happen. Lexus ain't gonna build the top-end cars or have the world-wide presence of Mercedes-Benz to do that. M
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Lexicans Response..
Hi All, I don't understand this prestige argument at all...Isn't it obvious a nameplate that has existed for not even 20 yrs will NOT be considered more prestigious than a historical marque such as MB..I think we can all agree on that fact Prestige is a function of time. I do think MB is concerned with Lexus at least in the USA. I distinctly remember a Mercedes VP complaining in the ... Read More
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Re: Things change quickly. [nvbanker]
Yeah, that one merc - and the C-240 Sedan as well. I've had rentals that were a disgrace in the cabin. No argument from me there, the 2001-2004 so C-Class was put together by a different company it seems, just like the 2000-2002 S-Class, very suspect. The 2005 model C feels like a different car altogether. Even one of the biggest critics (C&D) gushed over the interior quality of the C ... Read More
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Re: CD changer [merc1]
Yeah, I wasnt surprised to see that GM has abandoned their "value pricing" strategy in favor of the usual heaps of incentives after the showrooms became ghost towns in October. GM has been the "Bob's discount mattress warehouse" of car companies since 2001, and that kind of consumer perception takes years to change, not one month. Ford is definitely in better shape, as I think one of their biggest problems was ... Read More
Mercedes-Benz S-Class
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S-Class under NHTSA Investigation
Benz S-Class in NHTSA Study The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) has begun an investigation into recent versions of the Mercedes-Benz S-Class for a potential problem with the vehicle's gauges, according to the Associated Press. NHTSA has received seven complaints about speedometers and fuel gauges that failed to light on the 2000 and 2001 model-year vehicles. Seventy-two thousand S-Classes are being investigated for the problem, which could become a full ... Read More
High End Luxury Cars
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Mercedes, Lexus...again.
Same old stuff, just rehashed it seems. The 2007 S-Class is "dated" and has too much bulk - though it has yet to be seen in person by anyone here. I'm trying to find an article that says the car has too much bulk or that it looks like it does. Mercedes is struggling to find a new look for the marquee car while Lexus has been struggling to find a ... Read More
Mercedes-Benz S-Class
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Re: 2001 S500 AMG Sport MB [anoop]
I just learned that I have a similar A/C problem with my 2000 S430. Apparently the refrigerant is leaking from the evaporator which means the dash needs to be removed to repair this issue. Unfortunaetly for me, my Starmark warranty ran out 3 months ago. Needless to say, it's very expensive and I'm talking to the dealership/Mercedes to get some help with this matter. Can you share any ideas that you ... Read More
High End Luxury Cars
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Re: Land Rover [ljflx]
First of all I don't understand why Lexus even enters the discussion. It's a simple POV re this S-class design and has nothing to do with Lexus in any way. So trying to create a new series of flame posts re the two brands accomplishes nothing and is downright silly so I won't even go there. My point is not to start another debate about Lexus and Mercedes, its just that ... Read More
Mercedes-Benz S-Class Prices Paid and Buying Experiences
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Re: Mercedes-Benz S-Class: Prices Paid & Buying Experiences [kirstie_h]
Hello all, Onthe subject of price....overall cost I mean. If am considering a 2001 s430 with 45k miles for $22k. Surface research indicates that is a fair price, but are there glaring issues with this year/model I should factor in? TIA- MC
High End Luxury Cars
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Re: Merc1 [syswei]
Actually, why not? As long as the price gap between MB and Lexus is constant, why shouldn't MB grow as fast as Lexus? Now, if the average gap used to be 15% and then went to 50%, of course you'd expect slower growth from MB. But if the price gap has been fairly constant (and no one has shown otherwise), there is no reason to expect a different growth rate. Because ... Read More
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demographics
Everyone else I know with a Lexus is either over 50 or retired, except for some RX owners (women). That might be among the people you know, but in the overall marketplace things are different...MB owners on average are older than Lexus buyers. source: "Fixing Cadillac," Newsweek, May 28, 2001 luxury car median age household income % of college graduation Mercedes-Benz 52 $186,236 71% Lexus 50 $151,711 69% BMW 45 $149,609 ... Read More
Mercedes-Benz S-Class
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2001 S500 AMG Sport MB
I need help!!!! I am having recurring A/C problems....EC light keeps coming on andturning compressor off....its holding refrigerant, and have replaced rear seals to compressor, evaporator/condensor/ and face control modules....what else can I do?!?!?! I was fortunate enough to buy the 3year Starmark, but have owned the car for 2 weeks and have only been able to drive the car 3 days.....before telling me to "get used to it"...or....."that's what you ... Read More
High End Luxury Cars
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Re: DEMLER/CHRYSLER CEO RESIGNS TODAY. [lexusguy]
They arent screwed together like they used to be though. Try a current S vs. an S420 and you can see the difference easily. Thats true in that example if you're talking about the 1992-1999 W140 S-Class. I haven't seen anything built like that car or the SL from that timeframe, only the VW Phaeton comes close in sheer robustness, and it pays the price in weight. However newer Mercedes like ... Read More
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Merc1
You need to go wake up the S-class board. No one has even posted the new model.pix there. Love this quote from your post: "If a Mercedes doesn't look good in their signature "Brilliant Silver" we have a problem." If that doesn't show your team staus with MB, nothing ever will. By the way, I completely agree. The current S looks great in that color (incredibly so with sport trim) and ... Read More
High-End European Luxury Sedans
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mercedes quality
merc 1 my point is that the 87 thru 91 420sel and 560 sl are the pinnacle of quality materials and quality of assembly , and product engeenering at mb. it remained so from 92 until the new s class came out recently ,but the 92 thru 2001 or so, were in fact over engineered .too much mass . and high quality of materials and assembly . but way overdone in ... Read More
Mercedes-Benz S-Class
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2001 S500 and 2006 S500 4-matic
I purchased an '01 S500 in Sept. of 2000. I just traded that car for an '06 S500 4-matic. I had 72000 miles on the '01 before trading it. I had no major issues with the car. It was very reliable for me. I can not say the same thing for the 2000 ML320 I currently own. On the ML320, Mercedes replaced the motor under warranty at 37000 miles due to ... Read More
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2001 S430 MB INFO
I am driving a Nissan Maxima 2000 with my last two payments. The car still a dream without fault of any kind with 47,000 miles. As I am 60 yrs old and never own a Mercedes Benz it was my goal to buy a second hand may be 2001 S430 MB with 38,500 miles for statue and prestige because i will take an early retirement and will not drive much. But ... Read More
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Re: Mercedes corrosion S-class [stroudman]
Yes, I am the second owner, with a purchase thru a private agent. While the "too bad" answer is acknowledged, I am more than a bit surprised at the 50K mileage warranty for corrosion. My family's committment to Mercedes is corroding too. We've got 3 more (#2 1995 E-class with no corrosion, and a 1987 300-D with a bit of corrosion and 430K miles, so I'm pretty forgiving of that one). ... Read More
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Mercedes corrosion S-class
Hi, My 2001 S430 is suddenly CORRODING in many spots(door panels, wheel wells and trunk). At 57000 miles, Mcecedes Rep said "too bad" -beyond warranty. A 50K warranty of corrosion is way under the 100K of a KIA !! Do they really want me driving this rust bucket around town? Ideas, anyone? Leo
High End Luxury Cars
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Tony, what if it was 2001?
Income and educational levels of affluent consumers driving luxury cars "Fixing Cadillac," Newsweek, May 28, 2001 If you wonder who is behind wheel of luxury cars, here are some interesting statistics: luxury car median age household income % of college graduation Mercedes-Benz 52 $186,236 71% Lexus 50 $151,711 69% BMW 45 $149,609 69% Acura 48 $107,261 61% Lincoln 59 $113,656 49% Cadillac 62 $106,701 46% Just found this on a google ... Read More
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New Aluminum Jaguars
The next Jaguar S-Type will likely use the new XJ's aluminum chassis and have styling cues from the 2001 Jaguar R Coupe and the 2003 Jaguar RD-6. I think the grille and headlights need some work, but it looks nice. The Jaguar Advanced Lightweight Coupe shows what the next XK might look like. The next XK will have to comply with new European pedestrian safety regulations. The next XK will use ... Read More
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MB recall
FRANKFURT (Reuters) - U.S.-German carmaker DaimlerChrysler is recalling 1.3 million Mercedes cars as it tries to fix quality woes that are riddling its German luxury car division, it said Thursday. Mercedes will recall the cars in several model ranges worldwide to fix problems with alternators and batteries, which do not affect the cars' safety, according to the supplier, car-parts maker Robert Bosch. Mercedes chief Eckhard Cordes, who said earlier this year ... Read More
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Re: Side Airbags [sv7887]
The Insurance Institute for Highway Safety would probably disagree with you. You seem to ignore that frame construction is the Number ONE factor whether it be an airplane or car. Wrong. That article mentions that a good structure is necessary in addition to side airbags. A good structure alone simply isn't enough. Besides, why does it matter? You talk as if Lexus has a better structure than Mercedes when there is ... Read More
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Side Airbags
The Insurance Institute for Highway Safety would probably disagree with you. You seem to ignore that frame construction is the Number ONE factor whether it be an airplane or car. http://money.cnn.com/2005/03/06/pf/autos/iihs_side_impact/ It's funny, the New Beetle had all the side impact airbags yet it still did poorly. The Corolla did better (but still not great) with the airbags. Here's a telling quote: "Four of the vehicles tested -- the Elantra, New ... Read More
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Re: ljflx [merc1]
"How can anyone that fancies Lexus styling call any other brand of car bland is beyond me" For you Merc1, you'd make everyone think that Lexus owners don't live in the real world. And their Lexus is all they care about....Just absolute nonsense... "How easy is it to post picture of a 1971 Benz and call it bland." To prove how truly BLAND and ugly those MBs were. You'd look at ... Read More
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Re: ljflx [denaliinpa]
"i would purchase an MB today without hesitation and i don't doubt for a second that the other "ardent MB fans" would either" Let's for the moment forget that other "ardent MB fans" would buy today's MB, BUT you would buy today's MB, right ? So why didn't you when you had the chance, instead purchasing the A8 ? So what was it that gave the buy to the A8 over ... Read More
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Ljflx
There is an article in the April issue of Automobile that you're just going to love. It is titled "Losing the Luster" and it shows a cracked MB star. It basically says what you've been saying all along and what I've been saying too. While quality is down, perception to the general public is still sky-high for Mercedes, especially in Germany which is where most of this article concentrates. This is ... Read More
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Merc1's worst case scenario
ejerod, an MB owner recently had this to say about his MBs.... "....I have had 3 Benzes in the last 4 years. 2001 S500, 2002S 500, 2003 SL 500. I had enough lemons to make lemonade for the Pittsburgh Steelers for the next 50 years!!! My wife has had 2 lexus GS models that we have leased over the last 8 years. Not a single issue out of either of them. ... Read More
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Re: Which is better?! [ljflx]
"- I'll never waste my time reading thru the posts but more than once you said you have problems with the C-class and you'd not be a buyer of the car. My point is simple - the Lexus crowd has no problems buying, heck automatically buying, the cars in their price range. They eagerly await the next car because they are buyers of it. You eagerly await the next Benz because ... Read More
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Re: [syswei]
"What has MB done for the industry in the last 15 years?...Yes, MB has managed to do more here in 120 years than Lexus has in 15. " You must have been living under a rock for the last 15 years. Even if we disregard countless Mercedes innovations and only include those introduced since 1989 Mercedes STILL trumps Lexus by a wide margin. Virtually every safety feature in every Lexus car ... Read More
Mercedes-Benz S-Class
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ejerod
I was wondering what happened to you and your replacement S500. Really unfortunate. Do you still have the 2003 SL500? I'm scared to ask how it has held up if you still have it?? You are exactly right about the S-Class, and what you've described isn't all that uncommon with the 2000-2002 models. The 2003+ model was gutted of the things you had problems with, especially that troublesome Comand system. Mercedes ... Read More
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Mercedes Benz has lost its way
For those of you considering a late model MB 2000 model year or later.. one word..RECONSIDER!!!!! I have owned a 2001 S500 that had 1800 miles when I bought it. NIGHTMARE. COnvinced the dealer to buy it back and I purchased a 2002 S500 same features, sports package all the toys. It too has been living in the service department. Just two weeks ago ( I have less that 50,000 miles ... Read More
High End Luxury Cars
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ljflx
Nope I've never disagreed with you about the business end. I've said from day one that you were correct about the aspect of this discussion as you continue to be. The only thing I disagreed with was the theory about the average buyer caring about such business dealing or that Mercedes would lose their ability to sell cars because of their corporate problems. They haven't lost the ability to sell cars ... Read More
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Ljflx
My basic point with you is that there is no way everyone is into the business side like you are, otherwise Mercedes, Audi, VW, Chrysler or Nissan back when they were dying would have ever sold a car. Just because you yourself read these things doesn't mean everyone else does. Secondly what "loss of momentum" are you talking about as far as Mercedes here in the U.S? They just had their ... Read More
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Ljflx
Now the A-Class and Smart are image problems with Mercedes too? Smart is a seperate brand entirely. You know like Toyota is supposed to be seperate from Lexus. Smarts don't look anything like Mercedes, unlike Toyota's Camry Solara and the Lexus SC430 and now the Avalon which has a Lexus interior if there ever was such a thing. Talk about hurting the image. Why would anyone buy a ES330 over the ... Read More
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ljflx
"Do you like it better than current model - at least based on pictures?" Kinda hard to say based on spy pictures. What I'm sure I don't like is that character line down the side. It is the same line on the new SLK which is such a widely used technique today, something a Mercedes isn't supposed to use, imo. The new S is much larger though, about the size ... Read More
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Next S-Class
I see everyone has made up their mind and drawn conclusions about the next S-Class even before having seen one official picture. That said, in the spy photos I've seen I don't like the rear end treatment and that generc sash line down the sides. That line is way to common on many lesser vehicles and should be on a Mercedes-Benz. I'll wait until the official pics though because ... Read More
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Re: Mercedes [oac]
General rule of advanced business is that when you bring in a turn around exec, who's a cost cutter, then you have run all the other scenarios and none of them worked. The strong euro is also forcing their hand. I never thought that this was a Barron's because that type of thing happens (and is much more probable) in service businesses and is rare in manufacturing ops. When it does ... Read More
Mercedes-Benz S-Class
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MERCEDES-BENZ TIMEPORT MOTOROLA CELL PHONE
My Motorola Timeport P8367 MB cell phone for my 2001 S500 is getting "out of date". I'm using Verizon as carrier. I wonder if anyone know the newer Motorola phones such as V265 or V710 will work well with the MB integrated system? Thanks in advance, George
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Free Maintenance
I own a 2002 S500v, this is my second S class, my first was a 2001 S500, with all the toys. Both have been nothing but headaches. I'm a business man and I've sold cars in the past. Anytime a manufacturer takes back something like free maintenance it's because the dealers are complaining about lost revenue. Especially when it comes to a car like Mercedes where a simple oil change can ... Read More
High End Luxury Cars
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Re: So ... the Mercedes E320 isn't a true luxury car [footie]
Depends on how you want to look at it. Clearly the E320 is a class removed from an S-class. Thus in the MB demographics it is a lower level luxury. I had an Acura Legend in the early 90's and while it had luxury touches it fell far short of the cars we discuss in this forum at comparative periods. As far as I'm concerned so does the E, be it ... Read More
Mercedes-Benz S-Class
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Totally Unhappy
I have had the great displeasure of leasing three MB vehicles over the past 4 years. The first was a 2001 S500 with AMG sports package. It was a demo and a good deal so I decided to do the deal. The car had 1800 miles on it and was nothing but a nightmare. First the COMAND system went totally blank and had to be replaced. The phone handset went blank ... Read More
High End Luxury Cars
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michael_mattox
This is amazing. (Last Post) "In your previous post the chart showed 700+ units and you said that was US sales???? I accept 1700+ for the SL500....Allante sold 6700 in 93." No chart or link I ever posted said anything like that. Period. It said (they MBUSA.COM) said 1721 sales for 1993. End of story. You said 700 or 800 in your confused state. The link didn't change from one posting ... Read More
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ljflx
"I'll bet most critics of an LS430 have never sat behind the wheel of one. I'll also bet that many LS430 buyers have owned MB E or S class cars before. Do I have statistics - no. Just my feeling because it's the situation with the people I know and I'd bet its representative of a large part of the buying group." You might be right on that because most German ... Read More
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Re: [audibob]
audibob, Whenever I drive by a Audi dealer, they have a lot full of new Audi's. How do you suppose they sell a parking lot full of new Audi's at full price? Lexus can't seem to do it, BMW can't, Mercedes can't, Jaguar can't. How does Audi do it? Second, the A4, which is supposed to compete head on with the BMW 3-series, sells at a fraction of the pace of ... Read More
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How Mercedes styling has matured over the years
This is one of my favorite pictures. It shows how much the "new" Mercedes E320 took from its predecessors. Unfortunately it didn't take them from MB precessors, they took them from the Ford Taurus. At least Mercedes had the good manners to change the gas cap to square, chrome up the door handles and remove the big Jag type chrome trunk lift. On the other end, is the Mercedes "Grill", which ... Read More
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Re: [sv7887] [michael_mattox #5748]
"The Japanese on the other hand are great at taking an innovation and working with it and making it better..Keyless entry, Radar cruise etc. all apeared in Mercedes years ago....BUT..When they do show up in a Lexus you know they will work almost without fail." Really? If this was entirely true Lexus would be using a radar-based cruise control system like Mercedes, BMW and Jaguar. A laser based system has been ... Read More
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ljflx
Well you know what I think of the A8 W12's new grille. I think it fits perfectly. Gives the car real presence. Mercedes and Bruno Sacco are done from everything I've read. He is apparently still "close" (whatever that means) to the company but he isn't running the design studios. Oh well, not even Mercedes, BMW or Audi can make a gorgeous car every time. They used too, but not anymore. ... Read More
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designman
Actually I did kinda like the RL back in 1996. I was there live at the Chicago Autoshow when the car was introduced. I've always liked Acuras more than Lexuses or Infinitis. Right now though Infiniti is the one tugging at me....that G35 Coupe in particular. maxhonda99, I agree totally with the latest survey. The Dependability survey is where Mercedes-Benz won't show any improvement for quite a while. This year's study ... Read More
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lexusguy
I had been meaning to ask you what you thought of the facelifted 2005 XK cars? I really like what they've done to the lower body. I've seen a coupe in White and a convertible XKR this very rick looking Blue, absolutely stunning. No arguement about the interior, asthetically it was all Jaguar. The Germans then were just leather appointed board rooms in which to conduct the "business" of driving. I ... Read More
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Mercedes Recall
With all the talk on sales and prices, nobody mentioned (unless I missed it) that Mercedes last week announced a recall of 680,000 cars worldwide. This includes E-Class sedans built after March 2002, E-Class wagons made after March 2003 and SL models built after October 2001 because the electronic braking system has failed on some E-Class and SL-Class cars. The recall affects more than 143,000 cars in the U.S., according to ... Read More
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michael_mattox
"Do you think that if Mercedes went back to their former style that Lexus "copied" they would sell a lot more cars." I'm not sure actually. I think design wise they've never been better with the exception of the CLK and Maybach. Neither of those cars "look" like they should imo. I also think the SL could stand a few less frivolous details like on the sides and hood, but overall ... Read More
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merc1
It's posts like ejerod's on the S-class board that scare the daylights out of me on MB. He was in seventh heaven if you remember with the 2001 S - initially. When you come from 9+ years of Lexus perfection its hard to opt for anything that will be less. Isn't that why people became so loyal to MB over the years. They built bulletproof cars that people raved about and ... Read More
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maxhonda99
Well I didn't exactly say they were useless. My position is that there are other things to evaluate a car on. I do take issue with some of the things JDP says because they really don't tell you much other than where a certain brand or car places. Not much detail. Secondly since this is the board for survey worshipers with a Toyota bias I just had to point out that ... Read More
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Merc.
The answer to you question (below) is simple..Lexus perfacts the innovation before they put it in their car. A SAFTY INNOVATION WITH an ELECTRICAL PROBLEM EITHER BREEDS "FALSE CONFIDENCE" OR TO THE WELL INFORMED OWNER...A FEELING OF DOUBT AND CONCERN, Will it work, or will it not..Is my family save? BEING FIRST DOES NOT ALWAYS MAKE YOU BEST. "then why is that Mercedes manages to always beat Toyota to the punch ... Read More
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footie
"MB prices are higher than Lexus (and Infiniti and others) because their cars cost more to produce, sell and service. Their production processes aren't as efficient as Toyota's nor their ability to manage their supply chain as good. " I agree with all of this, but that wasn't what we were talking about here. My point for the last couple of days has been that a few on this board are ... Read More
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Mercedes-Benz
MERCEDES-BENZ USA Sales -- March 2004 Model March March Monthly YTD YTD Yearly '04 - '03 - % - 2004 - 2003 - % C-CLASS 4,825/ 7,266 -33.6% 15,407/ 17,567 -12.3% E-CLASS 4,971/ 4,456 11.6% 12,802/ 12,725 0.6% S-CLASS 1,572/ 1,805 -12.9% 4,379/ 5,250 -16.6% CL-CLASS 265/ 328 -19.2% 658/ 925 -28.9% SL-CLASS 1,430/ 1,028 39.1% 3,884/ 2,520 54.1% CLK-CLASS 1,925/ 1,900 1.3% 4,821 / 4,298 12.2% SLK-CLASS 379/ 554 -31.6% ... Read More
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sv7887
Don't know what you see in your car but I've had the 95, 98 and 2001 LS430's and they just keeping getting better and better. I'm about to take a 2004 LS430 and gave some serious thought to buying out my 2001 because it is so good. Interior is better than ever and I don't see any departure from the excellent switch gear that has been in the car in the ... Read More
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Mercedes ......fading star
I know that Mercedes has a much lauded history, but my own recent experience is very disappointing. I have recently been through three months of mediocre experience with a new E class. After years of wanting a MB, I finally went for it, but I now regret this deal!!! I have been to the dealer too many times in the past three months for service issues. I also find the interior ... Read More
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Cont.
The CL, SL, and S-Class in particular make even their German competition from BMW and Audi look like bargains, on paper. A loaded A8 or 745Li, and I mean loaded each costs about 80K, right where the S500 starts, yet Mercedes isn't at a sales disadvantage compared to a 55-71K Lexus model? Come on now. Mercedes would sell a ton more cars if they were cheaper. Think about Lexus dropping the ... Read More
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ljflx
Well we obviously differ greatly on design concerning the C-Class. I think it's one of the best looking cars in its class, especially in "Sport" trim with the bigger wheels/tires. Between the G35 Coupe and TL, I'd probably have to go with the G35. They both have about the same power, but the G35 Coupe looks so much better than the TL. If only the G35C had a better interior. Something ... Read More
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Mercedes
I'm really surprised as to how far the pre-owned market has fallen for them. The S-430 which was $14k more than the LS430 when I was cross shopping in 2001 is now worth only $5k more per edmunds. The S-500 that was $23k more is now worth only $11k more. The E-430 4-matic I priced which was $1500 cheaper than the LS430 is now worth $4k less. The dealer retail is ... Read More
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ljflx
Thats a Lamborghini Murcielago prepared for racing! That will be little much on the streets don't you think? Speaking of which, Auto, Motor und Sport TV had a three-way shootout tonight. They tested the Enzo, Carrera GT and the Gallardo. Such an awesome group of cars. The Carrera GT was truly the star of the show. ______ Sales. I'm not sure why certain publications make so much out of a sales ... Read More
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To Niceputt from Jamie
Thanks for the info - we'll have to go to Lexus! We walked out of the Mercedes dealership today (after going back and forth all week with this decision). We test drove a S500 they shipped in for us and compared to the 2001 750iL the S500 didn't feel like much of a car (not as impressive to drive). We really dislike the new BMW body design and of course that ... Read More
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2003 S500
Please HELP!! We are about to trade our 2001 750iL for a new S500? Is this smart?? My husband was so disillusioned with the new BMW body design that he's thinking Mercedes. Any thoughts? We may do this today, Halloween, around 5pm?? The BMW is beautiful, so are the Mercedes....Thanks!
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boo20
Your logic is amazing. Yes the Lexus LS430 sells as a Toyota Celsior in Japan and Asia. Yes that is also about to change as Toyota takes the Lexus branding worldwide and then all those high upscale Asian Toyota sales which are counted as Toyota's now, get counted as Lexus sales in the future. Do the translation on a Celsior and you'll find it sells in the $60k-$80k range. Is the ... Read More
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From the Peanut Gallery
The last car I would buy as a sedan replacement is an S-class, LS or 7-series. My space needs and driving preferences would have me spend $75k on an M5 (or even E55) before any of the above. That said, the demographic generalizations being made above suggesting an older, less afluent Lexus buyer don't hold true within my circles. Examples: A 45 year old business school classmate of mine sold his ... Read More
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no title
Thanks for the levity with the Seinfeld stuff. We need a bit of levity around here. Some people take themselves too seriously. Merc1: So, you like to use strong words regarding a comparison of the XJR's performance vs the S55....It is my opinion that you are wrong, and go way overboard by using terms like "smokes the XJR" "crush the cat" "its no contest" ..etc. I get a kick out of ... Read More
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Maybach math
Merc1/Pablo According to Automotive news MB plans to build 1,500 Maybachs a year, and expects 70 to 80 percent of all Maybachs will be sold to current Mercedes-Benz owners who want more than a top-level S class. I don't know what percentage they expect to sell in the U.S. but let's assume 50% of production or 750 cars. The latest IRS statistics show that 193,798 tax returns with adjusted gross incomes ... Read More
Mercedes-Benz S-Class
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2000,2001 And some 2002
Most Of the 2000,2001 and some 2002 model S-class has electrical problems. Mercedes has never been dependent on electronics in there cars. So they are inexperienced in the electronics field. But they are working with the Japanese to improve on all the electronics. The 2003 S-Class model electronics are much more reliable than that of their earlier models. In fact the command system will be reworked by nokia in 2004 so ... Read More
High End Luxury Cars
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Luxury Brands at Detroit
Been away for a while, well fear not I'm back. The Detroit Show was a true delight. I have never seen so much luxury and power on display. The stars of the show were the Cadillac Sixteen, Maybach 62 and Rolls-Royce Phantom. I missed my chance to sit in the Rolls by "that much" This is huge and elongated car. The interior is much nicer in person than it is in ... Read More
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Uh..... Don't forget those figures now...
Well, Back onto the subject of Acura competing with Mercedes. No. That is the simplest answer. No. Acuras upper range car doesn't even come close to the E-class. Mercedes sold 44,445 E-classes in 2001 compared to a meager 10,723 for the RL. So whether you think the RL is better than the E is fine with me but 33,722 people thought differently from you. The new E-class has a 10 month ... Read More
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RL vs E? Who's on first?
Thanks, Merc1. Here's what I think...we each have our opinions... Let's see, both the 2001 E and RL came out in 1996 and were pretty sharp styling changes from prior models (thought the RL seemed more of an evolution from the Legend than the 96 E from its predecessors). The RL and the E were signs of the times, not unique styling icons. No copying here. The feature list for the ... Read More
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footie
I'm not surprised, Acuras are good cars, but as that testimonial illustrates, there is nothing to lust after there, the car is an appliance. There is no way a 2001 RL offered everything that 2001 E320 offered. The E320 is faster and handles better for starters and technology wise I'd have to look up the RL's features for that year, but I doubt they match the Benz's. Of course the Acura ... Read More
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Merc 1 - Acura Lust
My sister is an Acura fan. She put 160K on her 95 Legend before giving it to her daughter. No dealer services except book maintenance. None. She got a 2001 RL and now has 60K on it. Same story. Her RL has the same set of options and technology as the E class in 01 when she got it. Plus it is fractionally longer, wider and lower and heavier, so it ... Read More
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no title
"In 2001, Audi sold just 163 A8's in Canada while Mercedes sold 1,218 S-Class models, Jaguar 498 XJ sedans, BMW 466 7-Series models, and Lexus 455 LS430's. Even the terminally-trailing Infiniti Q45 (which admittedly is new for 2002) sold 190 units." Greg Wilson. Now I know that Canada is very small in population compared to the U.S., but was this the case here as well? Anyone have the numbers?
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no title
See, the pessimism continues. I basically have issues with your entire post. First and foremost, let’s begin at continue to fall down the sales list. How long has Lexus been falling down The sales list? Year to year, sales have been rising for over the last five years. Not just that but in 2000 & 2001 I believe, Lexus was the best selling luxury nameplate in the United States, ahead of ... Read More
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merc1
While I was not asked, I'll answer your question anyway. I leased a C280 and E320, and took a hard look at an S430 before I got an LS430 in 2001. The bottom line for me is that there are just different philosophies behind the MB and Lexus ways of looking at cars. Trivial as it sounds, the cupholders tell the story. Even in the S class the cupholders will dump ... Read More
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Mercedes Quality
cul8ter - I agree with you that the failure of any component on a car such as a Mercedes is unthinkable, it is not the sign of weakness or deterioration on Mercedes' part. While many of believe Mercedes to be subpar on reliability scores, I still believe they still are the tops in durability. I have enough friends and acquantances that service the luxury marks to generalize the longevity of Lexus, ... Read More
Mercedes-Benz S-Class
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gserep1
It is so refreshing to read a first timer test drive of a Benz. I think r1_97 summed it up best. If you can do it go for the S500. Mercedes does some things differently from Lexus, the mindset is a little different. A Mercedes is pretty much a "custom" car compared to a Lexus. The options are endless and the features are space age in some cases. I can understand ... Read More
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THANKS r1_ 97
Thanks for the quick reply. As I said, this was my first exposure to the Mercedes. It IS very comfortable, but compared to the Lexus LS, it is lacking in some respects. To me, the Mercedes has MUCH more head and legroom than a LS, and certainly more than a GS. The front seats goes so far back. It seems as though it could accommodate a 7 footer in comfort. As ... Read More
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