2011 Toyota Sienna: What's It Like to Live With?
Read the latest updates in our long-term road test of the 2011 Toyota Sienna as our editors live with this car for a year.
What do you want to know about?
- Introduction
- Ergonomically Challenged
- Brakelights Recall
- Oregon Bound!
- Rear-view Camera
- So Slightly Boy Racer
- Oregon Run, Day 1
- Oregon Run, Day 2
- Day 3 Pizza Run
- Oregon Road Trip - Organic Curb Feelers
- Track Tested
- Of Roof Racks and Wind Noise
- Oregon Return Trip Wrapup
- Will It Fit a Treadmill?
- What The Heck Is That Thing?
- You Write the Caption
- Our Favorite Caption
- Sport Shift Silliness
- Big Car, Small Features
- The Best Toyota?
- First Door Ding
- 5,000 Miles Already
- Zero Range
- Maintenance Required, But What? When?
- Girl Scouts' Guide to Hauling Cookies
- A Bath, A Bag And A Bill
- Center Console Slide
- Lightish Darkish Interior
- Fuel Economy Update
- Design for Living
- Filing the Paperwork
- The First of Many
- Eight Passengers in a Pinch
- Loot and Lift Tickets
- The Departed
- The Winner
- Low Profile
- Cargo Space
- Liftgate is Too Low
- The Whip Antenna
- Reminds Me Why I Love Vans
- Carbon Fiber-Inspired Trim Keeps Me Sane
- 7,000 Miles on Cool Wheels
- Ouch. Whoops.
- Pixie Party Rental Pickup
- Grocery Bags, Purses and Murses
- If You're Really Thirsty
- Holds Lots Of Stuff
- Natural Habitat
- Rock the SE, Not An SUV
- P235/50 R19?
- '08 Model Wins J.D. Power Reliability Award
- Enjoying The View
- Burying the Needle
- New Edition Coming
- A Speedo Clarification
- Fuel Economy Update
- Cabin Fever
- Let's Have a Meeting
- Minivan Over Convertible Fun?
- Chasing an LFA
- Needs Its First Oil Change
- Smells Like Hippies and Beef Jerky
- 10,000 Miles Already
- Service at 10,000 Miles
- It's Huge!
- Second-Row Center Seat Stow Spot
- If This Van's A Rockin'....That's Perfectly Normal
- Furniture Quiz
- Best Satellite Radio Reception in the Fleet
- Holy Crap. Now That's A Glove Box
- Inside Information
- Full Load. Again.
- 2011 Toyota Sienna vs Odyssey as Moving Van
- Broken Trim
- Power Liftgate Video
- The New Man Van?
- Photo Sherpa Part 4
- Free Maintenance Booklet
- Riswick Is Right (about this)
- Knobs And Buttons...We Got Both Kinds
- Remembering its Great-Grandad
- Removing The Middle Row Seats
- School Bus and Luck
- Bluetooth Audio
- Moving (On Many Levels)
- 15,000-Mile Interior Check Up
- Does This Matter?
- Salt Bath
- Bonding With the Bus
- Redressing a Wrong
- Hold the Leather
- Will the Ladder Fit?
- Family Vacation
- 15,000 Smiles
- Better Than Odyssey?
- Still Minivans?
- Cargo Roulette
- Simple
- 15K Maintenance
- Spotted in the Wild
- That Doesn't Look Right
- The Minivan Life
- Ideal Track Support Vehicle
- Bumper Damage Repaired
- Clear Tail Lights
- Retained Value
- Snappy
- And Another Thing
- Dump Run
- Interior Video Tour
- The Upside To Bigness
- Well That Was Easy
- Would You Sticker Your Bumper?
- Angle Of Reproach
- Dry Well In A Desert
- Big Car Fatigue
- Driver Seat
- Lunar Surface
- Turn Signals? Maybe.
- Hates My USB Cable
- The Sticking Doors
- Double Duty
- Sticking Doors w/ Video
- The Whip Antenna 2
- Raincheck
- Not Even A Challenge
- A Bit Of A Stretch
- Three Dudes And Three Bikes
- Milestone
- Inner Light
- 20,000-mile Service Due
- Seen in the Wild
- Minivan vs. Hotel Bel-Air
- 20,000-mile Service
- Sullied Reputation
- Last Call
- "Dealing" With The Doors
- "Dealing" With The Doors Round Two
- Why I Didn't Use It
- The Doors, Round 3
- Moving the Ramp
- Label Recall
- Hauling Our New 2012 Jeep Wrangler Wheels and Tires
- Right On, the Sienna
- What A Minivan Does To You As A Parent
- Will the Boards Fit?
- I'd Buy One
- Well, That's Mostly Better
- Breakfast With...The Sienna?
- Minivan Sales Champ
- An Offer We Couldn't Refuse
- Spotted on the Dealer Lot
- Wrap-Up
Introduction
It's that time of the decade again. The current class of people movers is getting long in the tooth, its tech is lapsing behind and ordinary sedans are starting to catch up. It's time, then, for a new era of minivans.
The Toyota Sienna SE joins the class of 2011 with tougher competition than ever. Honda has a new Odyssey, Nissan has a new Quest and Chrysler has significantly updated the current Dodge Grand Caravan and Chrysler Town & Country. The war for the hearts, minds and cereal crumbs of America's families has never been fiercer, or more feature-laden.
And with a 265-horsepower 3.5-liter V6, seating for eight, 150 cubic feet of cargo space and a starting price of just over $30,000, the sporty Toyota Sienna SE — which has a racier suspension calibration than other Siennas — has a good chance of running away with the division. As good a chance as the others, at least.
We took a shine to the 2011 Toyota Sienna SE's handling in our first drive, but living with such a setup over the long haul is a different story. We wanted to know, so we bought a Sienna SE of our own for the long-term test fleet. Twelve months and 20,000 miles of day-in/day-out testing should reveal where this minivan fits in the new world order.
What We Bought
The first big thing you'll notice on paper is that the base seven-passenger, 2.7-liter four-cylinder Sienna starts at $24,460. For this you get the standard stereo with AM/FM/MP3/CD capability, an auxiliary audio jack, a tilt-and-telescoping steering wheel, cruise, triple-zone air-conditioning, a 60/40-split fold-flat third-row seat, three-row side curtain airbags, stability control, a six-speed automatic transmission and 17-inch alloy wheels, among other features. All for the reasonable sum of $24,460.
But we upgraded, two levels in fact, skipping directly over the LE to the SE model and its unique 19-inch wheels and P235/50R19 Michelin Primacy all-season tires. In addition to the SE's different spring and damping rates, it also features a specific calibration for the electric-assist power steering. Unlike the LE, XLE and Limited models, the SE comes in front-drive configuration only; all-wheel drive is not available.
Other standard items on the SE include a leather-trimmed wheel, a distinctive "sport" gauge cluster (complete with speedo, tach and fuel coolant temp gauges, plus an LCD odometer and trip computer display), and a leatherette-trimmed "sport fabric," eight-way power driver seat and four-way passenger chair. This is all on top of the LE's 3.5-inch TFT multi-information display and back-up monitor; overhead console with map lights and side door controls; fixed center console with illuminated storage; and keyless entry. Our van also has the 40/20/40 second row (instead of captain's chairs), making room for all eight passengers. All this doesn't come cheap: The 2011 Toyota Sienna SE starts at $30,750, before options.
Our traditional approach to options is this: It's easier for readers to ignore options and focus on the base car — if that's their intent — than it is to imagine what the goods are like to live with. So in that mindset, we really looked for a Sienna with the SE Preferred package, which adds a power liftgate, automatic climate control, roof rails, rear-window sunshades, an upgraded six-speaker stereo with XM radio, a USB input, Bluetooth phone/streaming audio connectivity and steering-wheel audio controls. That cost $1,545.
Another option that piqued our interest was the towing pack. It gave us an engine oil cooler (increasing capacity to 7.5 from 7.2 quarts) and a larger radiator and fan (upping coolant capacity from 11 to 11.7 quarts). The Sienna's towing rating is just 3,500 pounds, but we also live in a warm climate, so more cooling is always better, not to mention it only cost an extra $220.
The other options on our Sienna are an $850 sunroof, a $324 carpet/floor mat option and the $185 roof-rail cross bars. We didn't necessarily want this stuff, but the dealership had a 2011 Toyota Sienna SE with the Preferred and tow packages in stock, and they were willing to deal.
The MSRP on this van is $34,684, including the $810 destination charge. We found the van online and offered $500 over invoice, which the dealer accepted. No drama. No test-drives. No throwing the Edmunds name around. Just show up, sign and drive away. We paid $32,243 and this Predawn Gray Mica Sienna SE was ours.
Why We Bought It
"This is how all Siennas should drive — maybe how all minivans should drive."
That's what Chief Road Test Editor Chris Walton said after driving the 2011 Toyota Sienna SE. The SE model doesn't steer like other Toyotas, it doesn't ride like other Toyotas, and it certainly doesn't steer or ride anything like the outgoing generation of minivans. And that's a good thing.
We tested an early 2011 Toyota Sienna (a Limited, not an SE), and it toppled the 2010 Honda Odyssey, the previous benchmark in this segment, in a comparison test. Of course, the redesigned 2011 Odyssey took the crown back from a 2011 Sienna XLE in a subsequent Inside Line comparison, but the sportier Sienna SE model is a potential game-changer so it's getting another shot.
Minivans are on pace to recover from their historical bad rap, and the Toyota Sienna is going to be part of the resurgence. The flocks of image-conscious parents who jumped from vans to SUVs are fast being replaced by younger people who dig the huge functionality of vans, combined with their quirky looks and surprisingly decent driving dynamics. These buyers will proudly stand up and say, "I drive a minivan."
And for the next 12 months and 20,000 miles, we'll be that guy. Remote-controlled sliding doors, giant cargo space and a ride that's controlled but innocuous enough for unimpeded highway driving? What's not to love?
Current Odometer: 2,092
Best Fuel Economy: 20.9
Worst Fuel Economy: 17.9
Average Fuel Economy (over the life of the vehicle): 19.0
Edmunds purchased this vehicle for the purpose of this evaluation.
I'm going to go out on a limb and wager that this will be the No. 1 complaint about our new long-term 2011 Toyota Sienna SE's cabin: the center stack. Just like in our old long-term Tundra and the Sequoia, the center stack is wide and not angled toward the driver. As such, you have to reach into the Eastern time zone to tune a radio station.
Photo by Kurt Niebuhr
Just last Monday, before we announced our newest long-termer, the 2011 Toyota Sienna SE, Toyota recalled 94,000 2011 Sienna minivans to fix defective brake lights. Apparently the "stop lamp switch bracket could, in limited circumstances, be deformed by the driver's foot during parking brake operation," Toyota said. This could cause the brakelights to stay on or for the brakes to remain partially engaged.
Recall notifications are expected to go out in January. We'll take our Sienna in after the holiday.
It's a done deal. We're taking our new 2011 Toyota Sienna SE to Oregon for Christmas. A few commenters have pooh-poohed this, saying it's too big.
But our family still lives smack in the middle of the minivan demographic. If we were driving our own car, it would be a minivan because that's what we actually own, what we need, what we use. Our lifestyle is not quite ready for downsizing much below the Ford Flex, a near-minivan we've enjoyed on this trip numerous times.
OK, our presents and luggage would certainly fit in the Raptor, but I prefer to keep such things secure and dry during a long, soggy trip, so the Raptor is out. Besides, I took that one to Oregon last summer: been there, drove that.
No, the Sienna makes too much sense this time. It's the kind of vehicle we'd take on this trip regardless of where I happened to earn my living. And I'm interested to see how the SE's allegedly sportier suspension handles the warped roads up near the California redwoods and the Oregon coast.
Over the past week it's actually rained here in Southern California. A day in our 2011 Toyota Sienna reminded me of an important feature to keep in mind when you're shopping for a car with a rear-view camera: Location.
The camera on our Sienna is tucked beneath the rear grab handle lip. Its location doesn't isolate the lens quite enough to keep it from collecting beads of rain water, which limit its usefulness in these situations. In my experience, cameras positioned higher up on the back of the car tend to be less susceptible to this kind of water obstruction.
Is it a dealbreaker? Probably not. But in my book, it's a quirk worth knowing before signing your name to the dotted line.
I'm gonna see Erin's wager, and raise it a couple of nitpicks. So, not only do you have to lean far over to tune the radio, there's also no real feedback from the dial. You more or less twist and hope you land in the ballpark of your desired station. Not a huge deal, but it does pull your eyes from the road to see where you are on the dial.
Climate control: Credit to Toyota for at least doing a different design, offering some visual interest. But not feeling the quasi-Red Wing layout here, nor, again, the extended reach of some of the controls. Granted, the driver won't need much occasion to adjust passenger temp, but even the Sync button is just outta reach from the captain's chair.
And I know this is an SE, and the black nickel-look on the wheels is cool and all. But the carbon-fauxber trim treatment is a little much. That was another era, Toyota. When people still had money, homes and jobs, and historians had not yet weighed in on Vin Diesel's cinematic legacy. Let it go.
And so as to rebuff claims that I'm just a Nitpicky Peter, this van so far rules in the ways that truly count: underhood, underfoot and under traction.
Day 1 is history and our 2011 Toyota Sienna SE has made it some 400 miles up the road to our first stop in Walnut Creek, Ca.
Much of that distance was spent on I-5 in California's central valley — long, straight, boring, and just two lanes in each direction. The pack moves along pretty quickly when there aren't any slow-moving semis around. And like my northbound trip in the Mazda 2 a couple of weeks ago, today's northbound leg was a flow-of-traffic run, not a max fuel economy attempt. The idea was to drive like everyone else and see how she does.
For a while it looked like we'd make it to our first overnight stop on a single tank. But with 11 miles to go, the distance-to-empty gauge was predicting roadside ruin, so I stopped and filled up short of our goal.
At 385 miles from home the Sienna gulped 16.93 gallons, which amounts to 22.7 mpg. The EPA highway rating is 24 mpg, so that performance isn't too shabby in the face of not really trying. For reference, its EPA combined rating is 20 mpg.
Now for the frustrating part: turns out we could have made it — easily. The Sienna's gas tank holds 20 gallons, meaning I had three gallons and 70 miles yet to run. Sure, I don't like to push it untill it runs dry, but another 25 miles or so would have been no trouble, no risk. Now I know.
Like all modern minivans (and the Flex), a deep storage well is revealed when the 3rd row is in use. Here the "60" half is up, and our four suitacases are standing in the well, 2-by-2, with the top third visible. They alone would have filled the Crosstour to about 90 percent of its "seats up" capacity. Gifts are stacked eveywhere else, but there's enough space that I didn't have to play Package Tetris, and I can still see easily through any of the windows.
Tracy's big gripe about the Sienna SE was its distinct lack of seat heaters. Don't ask me, because I don't get it. But they're something she really likes, and she leaves them on almost all the time in cars that have them.
Our SE also lacks rear seat video screens, so we brought our own. There's no 120V outlet back here, so the kids had to leave the Wii console at home. And the SE has no navigation system, and it's not even on the option sheet. That's less of a problem at the moment, because I have an iPhone, Tracy carries a Droid and both have Google maps guidance.
This is where I have a problem with Toyota's SE option strategy. Who says you don't want navigation, seat heaters or video support just because you prefer the SE's sportier look, bigger tires and firmer suspension? But if one moves "up" to the trim grades that offer these features, the SE goodies are lost. That's a problem for me.
As for the drive itself, the SE's firm(er) suspension feels just about right. There's no float, no wallow and the steering is nicely weighted around center. It tracks straight and true, and no one remembers feeling the least bit woozy at any point during the day.
Tomorrow's roads climb into the coastal mountains, where the flowing corners of Highway 101 will give us a more complete picture of the SE's suspension and tire package and its level of puke resistance.
We're here. Our 2011 Toyota Sienna SE has arrived on the stunning Oregon coast without incident. And by "incident" I mean uspet tummies or stressed vertebrae.
My wife usually suffers from the latter after 800 miles in the shotgun seat, and the winding nature of the last 200 miles of sinuous asphalt usually plays havoc with the former. And sometimes the effects can linger for days.
Relentless earth movement has put a lot of wrinkles in the many corners found along the twisted upper reaches of northern California's Highway 101, and the Sienna's SE suspension and tire package shrugged it all off with ease. Its steering proved to be responsive and accurate, and the suspension kept the minivan securely on line while deftly damping out body roll motions as if we were riding in a much smaller and lower vehicle.
It's hard to know how a non-SE 2011 Sienna would have done here, but this SE was even more engaging on these roads than the Ford Flex Limited — a vehicle we like a lot — had been on previous trips up this route.
Today I ignored the Sienna's overly-conservative distance-to-empty (DTE) display and drove 15 miles past the zero point to get to my favorite gas station on the California side of the Oregon border.
Doing so allowed me to go 400.5 miles while pumping the gas myself — something that's not permitted in Oregon. Despite the dire DTE warning, an 18.4-gallon fill-up works out to almost two gallons remaining in the "empty" tank. Today's mpg worked out to 21.8 mpg despite roads that featured a lot of hills to climb and corners to accelerate out of.
Compared to last year's journey in the lower-profile Ford Flex, the 2011 Sienna has averaged about 1 mpg better. Our overall trip average so far is 22.3 mpg. The Ford Flex averaged 21.2 mpg on the same northbound legs last year. Both vehicles share an EPA highway rating of 24 mpg, but the 2011 Sienna's EPA Combined rating beats the FWD 3.5-liter Duratec Flex by a single mpg, 20 to 19 mpg. We're pretty much seeing that play out on this trip.
So far, so good. The 2011 Toyota Sienna SE is proving to be a pretty good road trip vehicle that stacks up well compared to others we've taken on this run.
Last night's pizza run was a perfect example of why we like to take a 3-row vehicle like the 2011 Toyota Sienna SE up to Oregon for the holidays.
The local pizza joint is 22 miles away — way too far to bring a load of suitably warm pies back to eat at home. No problem: the trip to town gives us a chance for all of us to get out of the house. And that's just the thing: "all of us" has grown to six people with my parents on board.
My two daughters are nearly as tall as my wife nowadays, so they need adult-sized space in the third row. And that's where minivans like the Sienna excel. And our SE also has the preferred equipment group, which includes 3-zone climate control to keep eveyone happy.
No one had any problems with space, of course, but the noise situation differed based on where one sat. Up front, there's not much to complain about - the Sienna doesn't ride with the silence of a Lexus, but it seems quiet nonetheless.
But during the pizza run my wife sat in the second row, where shereported an increase in wind noise. "It wasn't a deal beaker — I just noticed it," is how she puts it.
Possible culprits include the sliding door seals or the roof rack, which has its large cross rails installed even though we're not using them. They look like they're removeable, so we'll try running without later in the week if it ever stops raining long enough to unbolt them.
There we were, driving down a winding two-lane road in our 2011 Toyota Sienna the morning after heavy overnight winds had registered a peak velocity of 69.5 mph on Dad's wind gauge. Limbs of all sizes, from myriad twigs and simple leaf litter to larger branches that required us to stop and drag them aside, made the trip down Carpenterville Road much slower and more deliberate than usual.
"Do you hear something dragging?" I asked at one point. A loud scratching noise became obvious as soon as everyone stopped talking to listen.
No specific encounter could explain the two-foot twig that was lodged in the Sienna SE's sporty lower rocker trim but, then again, there were so many pine boughs on the ground that parts of the road looked like it had a two-day growth of green stubble on it.
It was, of course, easy work to remove the offending hunk of greenery, and we were soon back on our way, no harm done.
"Ha! That was odd. One in a million, right?" said someone.
A couple of hours later we found ourselves headed back up the same road, hungry for dinner after an afternoon of hiking.
"Shh. I think I hear something...again."
Sure enough, another stick had lodged itself in pretty much the same place with pretty much the same result.
Make that two in a million.
"This is how all Siennas should drive — maybe how all minivans should drive."
Or so we wrote in our first drive of the 2011 Toyota Sienna SE. Afterall, the SE is the driver's Sienna with SE specific wheels and tires, springing and damping rates, and its own sport calibrated electric-assist power steering.
Sounds good, right? We thought so, too. So much so that we bought one for our long term fleet. On the road our Sienna is confident and capable; something you'd be fine piloting your family up and down even the twistiest mountain road.
But with the kid seats removed and a professional test driver at the helm, what's the sporty Sienna SE do at the track?
Vehicle: 2011 Toyota Sienna SE
Odometer: 1,544
Date: 12/13/2010
Driver: Mike Monticello
Base Price (with destination and tax): $30,750
Options: Predawn Gray Mica; SE Preferred Package ($1,545 — includes power rear door; tri-zone CFC-free automatic climate control; roof rails; fixed center console; rear window sunshades; AM/FM/MP3 CD player with six speakers, XM radio with 90-day trial subscription, auxiliary audio jack, USB port with iPod connectivity and Bluetooth music streaming; vacuum fluorescent display; steering wheel audio and voice-command controls); Power Tilt/Slide Moonroof With Sunshade ($850); Carpet Floor Mats/Door Sill Protector ($324); Towing Prep Option ($220 — includes 3,500-pound towing capacity); Roof Rack Cross Bars ($185).
Price as tested: $34,684
Specifications:
Drive Type: Front-wheel drive
Transmission Type: Six-speed automatic
Engine Type: Naturally aspirated, port-injected, V6, gasoline
Displacement (cc/cu-in): 3,456cc (211 cu-in)
Redline (rpm): 6,500
Horsepower (hp @ rpm): 265 @ 6,200
Torque (lb-ft @ rpm): 245 @ 4,700
Brake Type (front): 12.9-inch ventilated disc with two-piston sliding calipers
Brake Type (rear): 12.2-inch solid disc with single-piston sliding calipers
Steering System: Electric power steering
Suspension Type (front): Independent, MacPherson strut, coil springs, antiroll bar
Suspension Type (rear): Semi-independent, torsion beam, coil springs, antiroll bar
Tire Size (front): P235/50R19
Tire Size (rear): P235/50R19
Tire Brand: Michelin Primacy
Tire Model: Primacy MXV4
Tire Type: All Season
Wheel Size: 19-by-7 inches front and rear
Wheel Material: Alloy
As Tested Curb Weight (lb): 4,461
Test Results:
Accleration
0 - 30 (sec): 3.0 ( 3.2 with T/C on)
0 - 45 (sec): 5.0 ( 5.4 with T/C on)
0 - 60 (sec): 7.7 (8.1 with T/C on)
0 - 75 (sec): 11.1 (11.6 with T/C on)
1/4 Mile (sec @ mph): 15.7 @ 90.6 ( 15.9 @ 89.4 with T/C on)
0-60 with 1-ft Rollout (sec): 7.4 ( 7.7 with T/C on)
Braking
30 - 0 (ft): 32
60 - 0 (ft): 124
Handling
Slalom (mph): 56.3 stability dynamic (55.0 on)
Skid Pad Lateral Acceleration (g): 0.77 stability dynamic (0.75 trac on)
Db @ Idle: 42.9
Db @ Full Throttle: 72.0
Db @ 70 mph Cruise: 65.5
Comments
Acceleration Comments: The hard-revving V6 produces enough power that wheelspin can be excessive when using pedal overlap with traction control and ESC off. Shifts in sport mode were reasonably quick. There's a surge in power at about 5,000
Braking Comments: Pedal was moderately firm and stayed consistently so throughout. but there's too much rear brake bias, the slight lockup of which would cause the Sienna's tail to step out slightly each time.
Handling Comments: Skid pad: Some measurable difference with trac-on / trac-off, but barely. The ESC is too intrusive to get a good idea of the SE's ultimate grip. Steering tells me nothing about grip level and only offers unrelated, unnecessary weight. Slalom: Complete disappointment that the SE version cannot shut off ESC. it probably matters not a bit because the dampers are so soft that it flops over and threatened to spin on the first 60-mph trial run. Steering is gooey and syrupy for no good reason. Doesn't even feel sporty to me.
Wind noise in the second row was a mild topic of discussion during our recent Oregon road test in the 2011 Toyota Sienna SE.
Tracy moved to the middle row for the run into town for pizza, and while she was there she noticed more wind noise (no, there was no snow on the roof at the time). She was thinking it was the rear edge of the sliding door seals, and I thought I heard something from the roof rack.
The former I could do nothing about, but I could reposition and remove the roof rack cross bars.
Loosen this and three other knobs like it to relax the clamps so you can scoot the cross bars about. Remove them entirely to take the cross bars off. We tried both.
Some crossbars nest togther better than these. Some are easy to slide but difficult to remove altogether. In cases like these the carmaker may recommend that owners store them in the rearward-most position when not in use. If that's the factory advice, words to that effect are typically molded right into the cross rails themselves.
Not so here. In this position I could hear a dramatic increase in noise from the driver's seat, even though these babies were further away from my earholes. Not surprising, really, what with the protruding knobs, prominent clamshell clamps and tie-down loops. On to Plan B.
Next we took them all the way off. And it worked, sort of.
This is clearly the quietest of the three modes, but Tracy still heard a hint of wind noise from the back edge of the door seals while seated in the middle row. Not a deal breaker, to use her words, but still there in the background. For their part, the kids, who spent 1,600 miles back there, were never bothered by it.
This admittedly small reduction in both frontal area and aerodynamic drag should theoretically pay a tiny (but surely immeasuable) dividend in fuel economy. Much more obvious than that is the fact that the van simply looks better this way.
And as reader @netjunky pointed out, removing the cross rails and storing them until needed drastically reduces the chance they'll be stolen — assuming, that is, that there's a demand for the things on the black market.
It's over. We're home from Oregon and the Sienna is back in the IL garage, extremely dirty and waiting for the carwash to open for a final bath.
Near-constant heavy rain and a bit of snow kept us indoors much of the time, but the roads were clear and dry for much of the 850-mile drive home, which we did in one 15-hour day.
This being the same holiday for many others, a lot of people were out there on Interstate-5 with us. That had a beneficial effect on fuel economy because it kept the prevailing speed down to 65-70 mph. As we neared LA, the Google traffic map on my wife's new Droid phone lit up red like I've never seen before, so we made a detour through the high desert, 50 miles longer but clean and green at 60 mph most of the way. The result: 26.3 mpg on a tank that lasted 421.6 miles.
Overall, we averaged 23.0 mpg over the up-and-back highway portion and got 17.8 mpg in our single in-town Oregon tank. The overall trip average works out to 22.2 mpg.
Here's a summary of our final impressions:
As noted days earlier, the SE's steering and handling are solid. The shortcomings noted at the test track don't ever come into play with a vanload of family members on board to keep things real. At family-friendly speeds (and sometimes a bit more) the SE tracks straight, turns-in accurately and doesn't bob or roll excessively mid-corner. In corners like you're in a lower machine, in that you don't feel like you're teetering high above the roll axis — which is another way of saying no one lost their lunch. But I'd call it composed and appropriate, rather than overtly sporty, which makes me worry about non-SE Siennas. In my mind they all should drive at least this well.
Tracy liked the seats a lot, and her back is hard to please, so that's saying a lot. She disliked the lack of seat heaters no end, especially when we departed Oregon at 4:30 in the morning. Still, I was surprised after our 15-hour marathon to hear her conclude that "I never thought I'd say this, but I'd rather ride in this than the Flex". The kids in the middle row agreed.
There were many chances to try out the headlights on the dark rural roads of coastal Oregon, and they worked quite well, especially with the SE's supplementary driving lights turned on at the same time. I hesitate to call them fog lights, because they seemed more suited to lighting up the sides of the road to help with cornering and critter-spotting, both of which were crucial.
The brakes, on the other hand, frankly suck. Sure, they stop in a reasonable distance at the track and they're quiet just about everywhere, but in the real world the feel is all wrong. Normal stops make them seem weak because you have to press harder than expected to get the job done. It feels like caliper flex or brake line swelling, but since it's happening at street speeds it's probably neither of those. The brakes look to be sized appropriately and they don't seem to fade, so we'll have to keep our eye on this in the coming months.
Finally, while I still can't understand the lack of a navigation system option on the SE, this turned out to be insignificant on this trip because Tracy and I both have smartphones with Google maps (and traffic) built in. Sure, we know where we're going most of the time, but the traffic we spotted before it was too late and the self-imposed detour we took to avoid it are the kind of thing that requires a traffic-enabled navigation system. But using a smartphone like this can get you into trouble with the law in some places, so the SE should at least offer the option (seat heaters, too — Tracy) because, from what I can tell so far, it's the version I'd want if I wanted another minvan.
I bought a treadmill and since its box was abso-freakin'-lutely enormous, I needed an abso-freakin'-lutely enormous vehicle to transport it. Actually, I shall be more precise — I needed an abso-freakin'-lutely long cargo hold to transport it.
Luckily, we had just purchased our long-term Sienna (this was just after Thanksgiving before we officially announced it) so it seemed like a good vehicle for the job. Was it though?
Just oh-so-very-barely.
I lowered the 3rd row, removed the second-row middle seat and then pushed one of the second-row captain's chairs as far forward on its track as it would go. Unlike the Chrysler minivan's Stow 'n Go, the Nissan Quest and big crossovers like our Chevy Traverse, you can't achieve a fully flat load floor from tailgate to front seats in the Sienna without removing the second-row seats. I wasn't going to do that, so this gigantic box was either going to fit or ... I guess I'd come up with something.
Thankfully, it was a perfect fit without a millimeter to spare. I'm not exagerating. Of course, the box had to sit atop the second-row middle floor tray and a seat belt buckle, which certainly isn't ideal. Also not ideal: Riswick and Takahashi carrying aformentioned treadmill into my house and up a flight of stairs ... but that's a different story.
As such, the Sienna isn't the best cargo-friendly minivan around. The Chryslers are still king in that regard (and the Stow 'n Go seats are now mercifully more comfortable than before).
OK, so let's play a little game of "name that part of the car." This closeup makes it too hard so there's an overall which helps locate the "thing."
Big prestige points for the first person to get it right.
Enjoy.
So, what say you?
It's our first caption contest of 2011, so let's start the new year off right.
Vehicle Testing Director Extraordinaire Dan Edmunds sent me this photo from his Oregon trip. I don't know about you but I feel like I'm being watched. Too much social media perhaps?
What is your caption? We'll post our favorite this afternoon.
Remember when we reach 100 comments, I ring the bell. When we reach 200, I do the happy dance.
Thanks to ergsum for this week's favorite caption.
Here are the other eye-openers:
I swear that was a plain brown shed before you started playing Hendrix. (oldchap)
Dude, what's in this air freshener? (oldchap)
Me, Myself, and Eyes. (sogge)
That minivan's a looker! (altimadude05)
Who's watching the watchers? (tomslick2)
The Seinna came with its own eyePad. (ergsum)
The new "Mystery Machine" (mrryte)
Eye see that Dan stopped at Weed again on the Oregon road trip. (technetium99)
Om, sweet Om! (actualsize)
And you thought the Outlander "See You" was creepy? (dragonflight)
Nice looking karma you've got there. (actualsize)
knock knock knocking on heaven's garage door (mrryte)
That's no garage; that a spaced station! (technetium99)
Sienna trip (deagle13)
Eye SE U (sideswiper)
Third Eye Blind Spot Monitoring (actualsize)
NirVANa (teampenske3)
What was your favorite?
Our 2011 Toyota Sienna SE has a six-speed autobox with a manual-shift mode. Pretty common, these days. Pop the lever to the left and it goes into a manual shift "sport" mode.
Great, in theory, but I have two beefs with the way the Sienna setup works.
1) Slotting the Sienna's shifter straight to the left could and should enable a sportier automatic shift pattern, perhaps lopping off a single gear in the process. Perhaps "tow/haul" is a better name for it than "sport". Either way, think in terms of shifting from 6A to 5S, where "S" stands for this optimized pattern.
From there, manual mode would be held in reserve unless and until the driver toggled the lever up or down for an actual shift request. At this point the tranny would remain in manual mode until the lever was slotted back into "D".
Plenty of other cars work this way. It's sensible, it's easy, it works. Implementation doesn't amount to much more than software and you get three modes of operation instead of two. But no, not here. Sport mode is manual mode, period.
2) Moving from "D" to "S" drops you from 6th to 4th gear — 6A to 4M, if you will. Hey, what about 5th? Why not start there and let me decide if that's not low enough?
During my Oregon trip, this issue cropped up constantly when I wanted a downshift to arrest my speed on slopes, but only a little. The Cascade Range simply isn't as jagged as the Rockies or Sierras, so the Pacific Northwest is littered with long, moderate grades.
Oftentimes, 4th was too much, and I had to manually upshift almost immediately to get to 5th gear. Essentially, I was forced to shift 6-4-5, otherwise known as two steps forward, one step back.
Nice try, but methinks this could stand a rethink.
Check out that itsy bitsy teeny weenie little back-up camera screen at the top of the dash. It doesn't even fill the space allotted for it. This cavernous vehicle has some really tiny features.
Look at the audio display. It only shows the name of the song, no other information from the satellite radio. And it cuts off the name halfway across. "A Trip to the Li--" Huh?
What do you think: as big as they need to be or wasting space?
My affection for Toyotas run shallow. If I'm not irritated by the fact that I can't find a comfortable driving position (I'm not Dikembe Mutumbo, make the back of the seat go lower), then I'm depressed by how utterly dull and responsive they are to drive. Seriously, how is the Corolla acceptable to anyone? And don't give me this 'some people don't like to drive' business. As our consumer comparison test showed a couple of years ago, once such people drove anything else, the Corolla's true, bland colors quickly showed themselves and it was dropped from consideration.
The Camry is only slightly less depressing. Just the other day a friend asked me if he should replace his 10-year-old Camry with another one. I responded thusly.
"The new Camry is tremendously disappointing. Compared to your car, they've cheaped out, using crappy interior plastics and putting them together poorly. Every new Camry I have sat in has different interior panels that are misaligned or different shades of grey. Sadly, people seem to keep buying Camrys and Corollas on reputation alone without driving anything else (which my friend would've done and probably still will). It's like only buying the albums of some great 80s band, despite the fact they've gotten fat, old, uninspired and simply doing it for the pay check."
That may be harsh, but after driving our long-term Toyota Sienna SE, I know the company is capable of so much more. I'm a 27-year-old father of no one who has absolutely no use for a minivan, yet the Sienna SE has responsive steering, a strong engine and a seating position capable of accommodating someone who isn't 5-foot-8 (a revelation!). I happily picked the Sienna SE last night to drive home because it's comfortable and nice to drive. Not exciting or fun or sporty — it's still a minivan — just nice to drive.
Frankly, I don't understand why the SE's tuning isn't the way all Siennas are tuned or all Toyotas for that matter. Its suspension isn't harsh, its steering isn't stiff in parking lots, its seats don't squish your love handles, its throttle isn't jerky, its transmission isn't programmed to kill fuel economy. In other words, it's not especially sporty — the Sienna SE just feels like an actual car rather than an inert rolling transport pod. The Camry SE and now-discontinued Corolla XRS do/did not improve upon the base car in this manner.
As such, I think the Sienna SE is presently the best Toyota (even if it inexplicably can't be had with a variety of family-friendly options). My favorite? That probably goes to the FJ Cruiser since it's the only member of the family with any semblance of character and since Toyota trucks are generally better to drive relative the competition.
Toyota's sales are down this year, and although Recallapolooza played the principal part in that, I can't help but think that it was an impetus for loyal buyers to begin considering other brands for the first time in a long time. Perhaps this has made folks see what they've been missing by being so unwaveringly loyal to their Camry or Corolla. If this trend continues, Toyota could see itself hemorrhaging buyers.
Thankfully, it seems that the company's CEO Akio Toyoda has noted this trend and has repeatedly mentioned that the cars labeled with his family's name (sort of) need to have "more heart and soul" and be more engaging to drive. Not sporty, just more engaging. The Sienna SE proves it's possible and that doing so results in a much better car.
We've only had our long-term 2011 Toyota Sienna for five or six weeks, but we've already blown through the 5,000 mile mark. No problems to report. In fact, the Sienna SE is fast becoming a staff favorite.
Yesterday I tested our long-term 2011 Toyota Sienna's range readout. As you can see it clicked all the way down to 0 Miles on its Distance to Empty display, as it should. And I managed to drive the van over 13 miles with it reading zero range before I chickened out and finally stopped for fuel.
I also learned that the Toyota illuminates a small fuel pump shaped warning light on its main instrument cluster when you have 24 Miles of range remaining. And it stays on until you gas up.
Our 2011 Toyota Sienna coughed up a warning light as I crossed the 4,500-mile mark a week ago. Page 685 of the owner's manual says this light will flash for a few seconds at startup beginning 4,500 miles after the last oil change, then burn steadily at 5,000 miles, whereupon the engine oil must be changed.
Then I dug deeper and found that this doesn't jive with the official maintenance schedule, formally published in the supplemental "Warranty and Maintenance Guide", one of those thin booklets packaged with the owner's manual. Page 36 of that document plainly lists 4 items for the 5,000 mile service, none of which are an oil change. Here the first oil change is called for at 10,000 miles.
I called Toyota and was told the supplemental "Warranty and Maintenance Guide" takes precedence. The 10,000 mile oil change interval applies here.
Great. I've got this figured out.
Then Scott went out and crossed 5,000 miles and threw all that out the window. The lamp above burned steadily, as expected, but there was more...
If the maintenance schedule is correct and the oil change interval truly is 10,000 miles, someone needs to tell the guy who wrote the software for this warning.
According to Toyota, the critical element is synthetic oil. Toyota began a gradual transition to 0W-20 synthetic oil and 10,000-mile oil change intervals during the 2010 model year, and our 2011 Toyota Sienna was filled with the stuff at the factory.
Toyota, in a September 2010 "Tech Tip" sent out to dealers, lists the reasons for switching to 0W-20 Synthetic and the 10k oil change interval as follows:
* Reduced friction and wear on engine surfaces
* Improved Fuel Economy
* Reduction in waste oil stream
* Reduced maintenance cost
They are quick to point out that 5,000-mile interval service visits are still required between each 10,000-mile interval oil service. Looking at the page above, the main 5,000-mile interval item of note is a tire rotation, even though a driver's floor mat inspection gets top billing. They also seem to assume people won't ever check their own oil and fluid levels, either.
So our "MAINT REQD" lamp has a reason to blink on each and every 5,000 miles, but the reason is not necessarily the need to change oil. The prominent "Oil Maintenance Required" warning we're now seeing on the information screen seems to be an artifact from an earlier oil policy.
It's either that or our Toyota sources and the maintenance schedule are both wrong and the oil change interval really is 5,000 miles.
Here's a little more. The owner's manual never uses the word "synthetic", not even once. And there's no underhood sticker to that effect, either. You'll see 0W-20 listed in both places, but that's as far as it goes.
Turns out that might be enough, because it appears that a synthetic formulation is necessary to get the viscosity all the way down to 0W-20. Therefore the stated need for 0W-20 in the owner's manual implies synthetic oil even though it's not explicitly called out. Still, that seems weak to me. Spell it out. Remove all doubt. Leave no room for error if engine life and warranty coverage are at stake.
As for the supplemental "Warranty and Maintenance Guide", the one pictured above containing the official maintenance schedule, synthetic oil is clearly listed in large letters on the front cover.
That's not good enough. This stuff should match up precisely and the specific in-vehicle warning we're now seeing makes me uncertain of the real story. The two manual authors and the person who programmed the oil warning screen need to check each other's work. One or more of them are wrong.
What does all this mean for us?
I'm still trying to confirm the official answer, but in the meantime we'll take our Sienna to our local dealer and play dumb. Based on when we bought it, the new Toyota Care program should apply to our Sienna either way it turns out. We shouldn't have to pay a dime for any routine inspections, tire rotations or synthetic oil changes, whenever they occur in the first two years.
More to come later.
Last week I attended Cookie Sales Training so my Girl Scout troop would be ready for the start of cookie sales this week.
Devout followers of the Long-Term Road Test blog know I've been Cookie Mom for our troop for the past several years, and therefore am responsible for picking up our full order from the cookie warehouse. Every year I decide what long-term car to take based on the number of cases we pre-sold.
The chart above was provided at the training class.
Guessing the Toyota Sienna will handle more than your average "mini van."
In our last episode, our 2011 Toyota Sienna was showing "MAINT REQD" and "Replace Engine Oil" warnings at 5,000 miles, even though the first change isn't apparently due until 10,000 miles.
I happened to be passing by a Toyota dealer in Corona, California with a couple of hours to spare, so I pointed the swagger wagon into the service drive to see what a random dealer said about the 5k service.
I told the service writer about the warning lights, including the engine oil message, and I expressed my confusion over the 10,000 mile oil change interval that seemed to be called out in the maintenance log.
My service advisor at Quality Toyota, a friendly guy named Paul, didn't hesitate with his answer, confirming my suspicion that an oil change wasn't needed and explaining that the 5k service was "basically a tire rotation."
"Do you have your coupons?" he asked. He was referring to the Toyota Care program that made this kind of visit a freebie.
"No," I said. "There are coupons involved?"
"Yeah, but that's OK. We can look you up in the system. Sometimes it takes a few weeks for them to come in the mail," he said as he logged into a website with our VIN.
We weren't listed there. He called the program office and spoke to a human. No luck there, either.
"The dealer you bought this from must not have filed the paperwork." That's why we weren't in the system and that's why I didn't have any coupons after 5,000 miles and 8 weeks of ownership.
He explained my two choices. I could have the 5k service done, but I would have to pay the $20 cost. Or I could wait, get the paperwork issue straightened out with my dealer in Santa Monica and then do the 5k service at some unknown later date when it would be free.
I had no idea how long it would take to get my dealer to sort out the paperwork. I was already there and stopped, I had the time (a rare commodity for me) and $20 didn't sound like a lot. So I told him to go ahead.
Thirty minutes later I had the van back, with a wash, a receipt for $20 and a decent little cheapie promotional tool kit for the car in a zipper bag.
As I started the van, the warning lights came back on as before. The guy who had brought it to me was still standing there, so he stepped in and handled it in a few seconds.
This morning we contacted Santa Monica Toyota about getting the paperwork sorted out, but the individual who is thought to be the one handling this sort of thing (no one on the line seemed to know for sure) will not be available until tomorrow. So we're waiting.
Still, it seems odd that buying a car and completeing the mountain of paperwork that goes along with the process isn't enough to immediately gain access to the Toyota Care free maintenance program. A seperate enrollment makes it seem like a short-term promotion of some sort, not a standard warranty feature.
And while $20 is tolerable — just this once — you can bet we won't be paying for that first 10,000-mile synthetic oil change. We're going to make sure our local dealer fixes this before we get there.
We'll let you know how it all turns out.
I really like the Toyota Sienna's wide center console. It's just like having a handy end-table next to the sofa.
But I really must get used to storing my stuff inside.
Soon as I hit the gas, the hard, shallow lid sends everything back here.
Only one interior color is available for the 2011 Toyota Sienna SE, Dark Charcoal in a combination of vinyl and cloth seats with a leather-trimmed steering wheel.
The seats and carpet are certainly representative of Dark Charcoal, but the steering wheel trim, not so much.
While I like the look of the contrasting light-colored wheel, I can't help but wonder how long before it's a grubby mess.
Better wash your hands good after opening the kiddies' Cheetos and drink boxes.
Our 2011 Toyota Sienna was out on the road during our last monthly fuel economy update, so here's a quick snapshot of its performance so far:
Average Lifetime MPG: 20.4
Worst Fill MPG: 14.7
Best Fill MPG: 26.3
Best Range: 421.6 (20 gallon tank)
EPA Rating: 18/24 City/Highway
As much as the minivan is disdained as the instrument of the design devil, a simple box on wheels, it's actually the only vehicle in the road where you see real innovation in both appearance and function.
While every other sort of vehicle asks you to sit in the usual cockpit-style space that's riddled with design cues from other machines (airplanes) and other times (the 1950s), the 2011 Toyota Sienna bravely suggests that you consider a different control layout, one that's more friction-free, ergonomically speaking.
While everyone else is sitting in the automotive equivalent of a stupidly stuffed office chair — designed foremost to be seen rather than to be used — the Toyota Sienna suggests that a seat that has been modeled after those in an airliner's business class might actually be more appropriate for those riding behind the flight deck.
Think of all the design stuff that has come from the minivan.
For me, the Volkswagen microbus came first, an oblong shape of Bauhaus efficiency that achieved the kind of passenger count from a small space that you usually see only in clown cars at the circus. Then came the Chevy Corvair van, America's response to the VW bus, with a radical downsizing of proportions in an American van, not to mention a reshuffling of major components. (Too bad they couldn't keep the oil on the inside of the engine.)
The Brubaker Box expressed the reinterpretation of the van as a machine for driving as well as hauling. And America's boogie van mania of the 1970s was legitimized by one-box design concepts from Giugiaro and Pininfarina. Even the introduction of the front-wheel-drive 1984 Dodge Caravan — a rethink of a concept that Hal Sperlich had first developed for Ford in 1974 and then brought to Chrysler — is surely an important milestone in the history of design, a moment that makes me think of Le Corbusier, not Lee Iacocca.
The minivan is one of the few vehicles that has inspired designers to go into the real world and study the way that real people use vehicles. (Usually designers like to sit around in sunny courtyards in Barcelona and just make assumptions.) Consider the clever innovations that have come to us from minivan design. The center storage console. The sliding cargo bin beneath the passenger seat. Automatic sliding doors. The reclining, sliding and tumbling second-row seat. The rearview camera. Rear-seat entertainment systems. Remote-operated rear window vents. Stow n' Go seats. Swivel n' Go seats. Power-operated liftgates. The cupholder!
Sadly the standard of exterior design for minivans has declined from the days of the third-generation 1996 Dodge Caravan, a masterful blend of style and utility from the designers led by Tom Gale, Chrysler's now-forgotten studio master. In comparison, the current generation of vans is all about the competition to produce the largest possible measurement of interior passenger volume, which looks very impressive on a sales brochure. That's why the Sienna has the same aesthetic impact you'd get from throwing a sheet over a hospital gurney.
But for all the decline in the standards of one-box exterior design (remember the original Renault Espace?), I still get a design buzz from sitting in the Sienna. I mean, why not make a vehicle that is less like the usual roundup of vehicular cliches and more like Le Corbusier's Machine for Living?
All new Toyotas are supposed to come with free maintenance for two years or 25,000 miles. But when Dan Edmunds took our Sienna in for the first service, he was told he had to pay for the service out of pocket. He asked me to look into the mix up which is turning into a real headache.
My first step was to call the salesman we dealt with and see if he knew anything about it. He directed me to the finance manager who said he would look into it. After four days of calling the dealership and getting bounced around to different people, I finally had an answer.
Our Sienna was purchased in November and its enrollment into the Toyota Care program needed to be manually inputted. This method left it prone to human error or circumstance. In the case of our Sienna, the dealership's finance clerk was out on sick leave, which in turn caused a backlog in filing the paperwork. Our Sienna's Toyota Care registration had not yet been processed and we were left without coverage.
The Toyota Care free maintenance program is still relatively new. It was previously a temporary offer which used vouchers that consumers would redeem for their free maintenance. The program became official in October 2010. According to Toyota, they've done away with the vouchers now and are linking the information to the car's VIN, similar to what other automakers do for their free maintenance programs. But our Sienna was caught in this transitional period.
The finance manager at the dealership assured us that the appropriate paperwork has been submitted, but wasn't sure how long it would be before it took effect. We're about 4,500 miles away from our next service, so we're hoping it's taken care of by then. We will also be getting a refund for the tire rotation we paid for.
"You're going to Vegas, again?!" bellowed the Senior Copy Editor. "It seems like you go every other month!"
"Oh, please," I replied. "I went only 6 times last year." Over a year that averages out to... Nevermind.
So this will be our long-term 2011 Toyota Sienna SE's first trip to Vegas in its year-long stay, and my first in 2011.
The Sienna has many fine attributes including 3-zone HVAC, 2nd row captain's chairs, and a transverse mounted 3.5L V6 driving the front wheels. But I chose it solely for its 7-passenger capacity.
It will also be the first trip to Vegas ever(!) for two of my friends. Can you imagine?
I'll try to make it special for them. Any suggestions? (Keep it clean.)
I went to Vegas over the weekend with 6 other people, and our long-term 2011 Toyota Sienna SE can be configured to seat either 7 or 8 passengers. The Sienna has a clever 8th seat that fits between the 2nd row Captain's chairs, and when removed stores conveniently in the cargo area.
Instructions printed on the removable seat make installation pretty easy: just unfold and snap in the bottom and the seatback (you also have to pull 2 small straps.)
I didn't have a scale handy, but would estimate that 8th seat weighs about 15~20 lb.
You can see...
You can see that the 8th seat bottom doesn't match perfectly with the 2nd row seats due to their slight bolstering. So that center position isn't very comfortable. We left that seat out for our Vegas trip and sat three in the back, instead of 3 in the 2nd row. Everybody back there was OK.
The 2nd row Captain's chairs, however, were road trip bliss.
Just over a week ago, I brought our 2011 Toyota SIenna in for it's 5,000-mile service, unsure of whether or not an oil change was warranted. Turned out an oil change wasn't needed, but a tire rotation was.
Then the service writer and I discovered that the Toyota Care paperwork hadn't been filed by the Santa Monica dealer that sold us the van. But I was having the service work done at Quality Toyota, a dealer 60+ miles away in Corona, California. With the van seemingly out of the program, I ended up paying 20 bucks.
Then, last week, I got a phone call from Jim, the service manager at Quality Toyota, who informed me I could come by for a full refund. I hadn't pressed for it, but there he was, apologizing on the phone. Maybe they heard from the Santa Monica dealer as the Toyota Care paperwork was getting straightened out. Maybe the repair code and note put onto my invoice by the service writer was flagged by the computer for follow-up. Maybe someone got wind of the blog. For my part, I intentionally misspelled my name to throw them off the trail in an attempt to get "normal" service.
Either way, Jim made sure I got my $20 back, plus a couple of Mountain High lift tickets for my trouble.
Meanwhile, we've received word that our van's paperwork has been filed and we won't run into this again. Furthermore anyone who bought a Toyota from Jan 1st onwards won't have this problem because the Toyota Care program is now tied directly to the VIN and enrollment paperwork is no longer required.
We made it back from our short hop to Vegas unscathed, suffering only sleep deprivation and financial loss. Our 2011 Toyota Sienna SE was a great road trip car for a big crew, 7 people in our case. The 19" inch wheels didn't affect the smooth, controlled ride (for a van).
The transverse mounted 3.5L V6 pulled all the grades on The 15 with ease, the 6-speed auto transmission quickly downshifting 1 or 2 gears as necessary. Several test cars I've driven to Vegas (e.g, Terrain, Flex) have struggled with those grades. The Sienna got tossed around a bit by some hellacious crosswinds on the ride home, but was otherwise stable, even through a few brief downpours.
I ended up getting 20.02 mpg over ~ 600 miles. The EPA combined rating is also a decent 20 mpg.
Of course the Sienna was spacious (except for the 3 people in the 3rd row), and the 3-zone HVAC kept everyone comfy. The only complaint from my passengers was about the 3rd row belts cutting across their necks and shoulders.
And they absolutely loved the rear window shades — that Mojave sun is quite hot and bright, don'tcha know?
Have you read our 2011 Minivan Comparison Test?
The Sienna that participated in that test was our very own long-termer. It unseated previous minivan champ, the Honda Odyssey, as well as beating the Nissan Quest, Chrysler Town and Country, and Dodge Grand Caravan.
It has the best blend of comfort, performance and value under $40,000.
It's lowered appearance makes our 2011 Toyota Sienna SE look sportier. But from a practical standpoint there is a drawback. Less ground clearance only increases the danger posed by steep driveways and tall curbs. At least this damage was minor.
Minivans rival the utility of any other style of vehicle. Fold the third row seats into the floor of our 2011 Toyota Sienna and pile in the cargo. It's great. My only problem with the Toyota is the second row of seats. If they were as easy to stow as the third row, I wouldn't have had to make another trip to transport the last box.
How tall are you? The rear liftgate on our 2011 Toyota Sienna is 5 feet, 11 inches. That puts the door right at forehead level for me. So far it's caught me twice and each welt was as painful as the other. I can't remember any other rear liftgates that are quite this low.
Is this tall enough for you, or am I in the minority?
Our long-term 2011 Toyota Sienna SE is a great value. It rings up at just under $34,700, not bad considering that includes pretty much everything you need, except Navi. But something had to give to get to that price.
On all Sienna trim levels (including SE and XLE) except the Limited, Toyota has included a mast radio antenna instead of a glass-embedded unit. I don't like it.
These whip antennas are fine on El Cheapo-mobiles, but certainly not on something over $30K.
Our expectations have changed.
Toyota is the king of smart cost cutting, eliminating items they believe the customer won't miss anyway. But sometimes they go too far, and customers do indeed miss them.
And you? Would you care if ended up with a whip antenna on your ride?
I've been in a minivan state of mind all week, so I've treated myself to some quality time in our long-term 2011 Toyota Sienna SE. I was actually pretty lukewarm on the Sienna during our recent minivan comparison test, and the general feeling among the editors who participated was that the Toyota won on the strength of its all-around package — capable in nearly all areas, but not endearing on a personal level.
Yet, the more I drive the Sienna, the more I like it.
The suspension tuning and the electric power steering calibration are really spot-on. Everything about the way this van moves as you turn a corner or back into a parking spot feels precise and effortless. Here, I've effortlessly and extra-legally backed into a loading/fire zone to return the big Zappos box (2 of the 7 pairs fit)... I ran into the store for 30 seconds and put the hazards on.
Although you never forget you're driving around in a great big box-shaped vehicle, the Sienna has a way of masking its weight that I like. Crossovers feel leaden and cumbersome to me, but this Sienna feels a good 500 pounds lighter than it actually is.
There's a definite half-hearted feel to the interior plastics in our long-term 2011 Toyota Sienna SE. Now, I wouldn't necessarily want really nice, tactile, delicate surfaces in a minivan cabin anyway, since I'm probably not going to have the time to appreciate them before they get all coated in kid goo. Still, I feel like Toyota could have gone farther (as Nissan, Honda and Chrysler all have) to cover up the inevitable cost-cutting.
Oddly, it's the carbon fiber-inspired strips that accent the Sienna SE's dash, door panels and shifter that keep me from feeling depressed when I drive this van. Do they look authentic? Not a bit, but these strips brighten up this gray-upon-gray-upon-gray cabin without creating annoying glare in bright sunlight. And they keep my eyes off the thin, corrugated-looking plastic to either side.
Our long-term 2011 Toyota Sienna crossed the 7,000-mile mark on my watch.
After 7,000 miles it still looks new, at least to the casual observer. As Mike Schmidt noticed, if you look closely at the underside of the body cladding there are some obvious scrape marks.
One item I noticed as the car was being towled off at a car wash was how attractive those 19-inch chrome wheels look. They never stood to me before, though I thought the van had a generally appealing look. I only noticed the wheels this past week.
In my opinion that's the sign of a perfect wheel design — doesn't overwhelm the car's overall appearance, just subtly enhances it.
I'm recently back from maternity leave, and this was my first time in our long-term Toyota Sienna. Had my infant's rear-facing car seat cinched into the second-row passenger seat (not in this pic), and I leaned down to pick something up from the floor. Wham! Conked my noggin on that grab handle you see there. Ouch.
The space between the baby seat and the back of the front passenger seat is limited when the baby seat is rear-facing, hence the head bump. Later that day when I had to grab something from the floor, I made sure to avoid the handle.
Then I put my phone in the wide tray on the center console. A few minutes later, I came to a slightly abrupt stop and — zip! — my phone went sliding right out of the tray and lodged itself between the seat and the console. Whoops. The tray could use a rubbery insert. I wasn't going that fast and my stop wasn't that abrupt.
What do you do when you're expecting five diminutive fairies for a tea party and none of the furniture you own will suffice? You rent. And when you have a minivan like our 2011 Toyota Sienna, you pick up the rentals yourself.
That's a 6-foot by 30-inch banquet table (with cute short legs, cuz fairies are little, right?) and six child-size wooden folding chairs (again, fairies = tiny). As you can see, there's plenty of room for even more stuff on either side of the table, and I didn't have to fold or remove the second-row seats (a big plus, because that would have also meant removing the kid/baby seats installed therein and I hate having to re-install those seats when I don't have to).
This was the first time I'd stowed the third-row seats in the Sienna, and I found it to be fairly easy, though it took me two tries to get it right. I'm gonna have to get some time in our LT Odyssey and play with the third row seat, to see how they compare.
This is how far forward the table comes in the cabin when it's pretty much flush with the rear hatch. It had a few inches of forward travel before it touched the center console, so I stuffed a blanket I had in the car in the space there to prevent any slams.
The fairies were pleased with their teeny accomodations, and even I managed to keep the pixie dust out of the Sienna. Fairies require a buttload of pixie dust for a proper tea party.
One of the things I love most about the layout of many minivans is that wide-open storage area in front of the center console bin. I imagine this area is designed primarily for storing purses and murses but I find it pretty useful for accommodating a grocery bag after some light shopping.
Both the Sienna and the Odyssey offer this feature but the difference is that on the Sienna, the storage area has the plastic well shown in the photo above. The well looks good and I imagine it helps to keep purses and murses more secure but it winds up making the area a bit less spacious, which is not good for larger grocery bags. Still, I was able to squeeze one in on a recent trip to the fruit and vegetable store.
Are you a minivan owner? Which features do you love most about your ride?
Should you feel the need, you can fit a couple monster sodas in the Sienna's upper cupholder pullout. Then there are the regular two cupholders in the center console plus the bottle holders in the front door bins. Odds are, you won't be lacking for beverage space in the Sienna.
All this week the Sienna has been my workhorse as I've been moving house. A moving van took care of most of what we had, but I still made multiple trips with the Sienna as a support vehicle. It's been super convenient to have. I didn't bother removing the second-row seats, but there was still plenty of room behind them (and I could put smaller items on or in front of those second-row captain chairs). I also fit a rolled-up 9-by-11-foot rug. I just hope I didn't look like the guy in the Mini Countryman commercial when I was doing it.
I did a school run today in the Sienna. As you can see, minivans seem to be drawn to preschool parking lots like wildebeests to a Serengeti watering hole. There were even a couple older family relatives to keep our Sienna company.
The driver of the red Sienna saw me in our long-termer and asked a few questions about it. I then asked if she liked driving hers. Her response was interesting to me.
"Not really," she said. "This probably sounds weird, but every time we go on a trip my husband insists on packing up as much stuff as possible. His logic is: "We have all this space, why not use it?" It's annoying. For me, I'd rather just take less crap and not need such a big vehicle."
Normally it seems Americans think bigger is always better when it comes to cars. But not in this case.
When Toyota first started its "Swagger Wagon" campaign for the new Sienna, a friend emailed me a link to the initial video, saying "This is so you!" True, there was a passing semblance between the actors and me and my wife. And we have a kid. But a minivan family, really? My wife has told me many times she'll never drive one, and I own a Corvette. I didn't see it.
But now I've spent about two weeks driving our Toyota Sienna. And things are different. Swagger, not really. But appreciation, yes.
Mostly, this was the first "quality time" I've had with a minivan since joining the parent club. I became more attune to certain qualities. First of all, power sliding rear doors rock. Hands full? Just push a button on the fob or make a quick yank on the outer handle for automatic operation. Getting in and out (and getting little kids in and out of child safety seats) is easy, and the sliding door means no dinging other cars' doors in parking lots. The low-step in height is also nice. (Noticing a trend here? Once you have kids, it's all about making your life easier, because the rest of parenting is irrevocably hard.)
The Sienna also hooks you up with plenty of interior storage, three rows of seating and massive cargo space for all the stuff you'll be eventually carrying. There's also very good outward visibility — my daughter likes it because she can see more when riding in back. And while the Sienna has exterior measurements similar to a full-size SUV or crossover, it just drives more fluidly and nimbly than either one.
Yeah, I have to say the idea of "rocking the SE, not an SUV" is pretty appealing. If it came to the point where I had a buy a new family hauler, it'd be a tough choice. I still really like the Ford Flex. For one, I just like the way it looks, and two, you can get it with the turbo V6. But I also think I'd be very pleased with a Sienna.
Before heading to the mountains to chase the recent storm that dumped feet of snow up at Mammoth I stopped at a Kragen Auto parts store to purchase some snow chains for our Toyota Sienna. The conversation that followed went something like this:
"Do you have chains for a P235/50 R19 tire?"
"Sure let me look it up... Are you sure that's the size?"
"Yep"
"hmm... Is that the size that is supposed to be on the car?"
"Yep"
"According to our database they either don't make tires that size, or they just don't make chains that fit tires that size."
He then offered me chains that would fit P235/50 R18 or P235/55 R19. Close but I passed on both as I have seen what can happen to cars when the wrong size chains are installed or when they are installed improperly. Luckily down the street was a NAPA Auto Parts.
Unfortunately I had a very similar conversation with the man working at NAPA. I don't know if P235/50 R19 is a rare or new tire size, but according to both Kragen Auto Parts and NAPA no one makes chains that specifically list that size.
The Sienna may be less popular than the Odyssey with you, our gentle readers, but at least the model's earning some props for reliability: It was the big winner in the minivan segment in J.D. Power's recently released 2011 Vehicle Dependability Study. The study looked at three-year-old models (from model year 2008), tracking problems reported over a 12-month period.
Toyota's people mover was a top scorer in all four categories: Overall Dependability, Powertrain Dependability, Body and Interior Dependability, and Feature and Accessory Dependability.
Does a win like this make you more likely to favor the Sienna?
This is what it looks like from the front seat of the Sienna. The airy greenhouse gives you a good look at the world, presenting clear sight lines from most angles.
It's easy to get a sense of what's around you in traffic. And despite its not-exactly-diminutive dimensions, parking the thing isn't cause for a Xanax. Great outward visibility takes the guesswork out of the process.
I had my passenger take this pic of the Sienna burying the needle at the oh-so-blazing speed of 80 mph. With the center of speedo being 55, I pretty much do a double-take every time I look down from the highway since my mind initially says "Holy crap, are we doing 130?" But we're not. Well, I sorta am, but as Dorothy said in the Toronto production of the Wizard of Oshawa, "We're not in Canada any more."
Sure, the Sienna is most likely to be driven by suburban domestic engineering and care-giving specialists gingerly tip-toeing around town with precious cargo aboard, but this speedo still seems a little ridiculous. It's like I'm driving a GM car and somebody's switched the instruments to metric.
My preference would be for 80 to be at the top (and I don't like speedos that start with 0 at 6 o'clock), but it's not exactly a make-or-break preference. Nevertheless, 55 is a little too grandma.
Ford paired with Eddie Bauer; Lexus cozied up with Coach. Now Toyota shacks up with Costco. This is too late for our long-term test, unfortunately, but Toyota recently announced plans to team up with wholesale membership warehouse chain Costco on a vehicle. The 2012 Toyota Sienna Kirkland Edition will be tailored to the needs of bulk shoppers and families.
In addition to all the features available in the base 7-passenger Sienna, Kirkland-spec versions will feature:
- built-in freezer compartment
- $250 Costco gasoline credit
- remote uploading of photos from your phone or camera directly to the Costco Photo Center through the car’s USB port
- extended cargo compartment with room for a whole pallet of frozen bagel dogs
- cargo area pre-loaded with 1,000 size 4 Huggies Snug + Dry diapers.
No word on pricing as of yet. Any Costco shoppers out there? What would you be willing to pay for the cache and extra utility of the Kirkland Sienna?
I realize now that I should've been clearer about why I didn't like 55 being at the center of the Sienna's speedometer. It has nothing to do with wanting to do 140 mph in a minivan — stopping at a buck 10 is way more than sufficient for this thing. Instead, this is entirely a psychological relation between seeing the speedometer in my periphery, my sense of speed and my right foot.
There is something disconcerting about seeing that needle buried and I'm pretty sure I'm subconsciously slowing down because of it, since I've been "programmed" to equate such a needle position as being indicative of a grossly illegal speed. I equally remember being freaked out by my friend's old '96 Cherokee for the same reason. Now, this is a problem when it's quite common on Los Angeles freeways to drive in the 75 to 80-mph range with traffic regardless of what the speed limit says.
Perhaps this explains why Siennas are always going so damned slow around here (well, at least a small part of the explanation). Perhaps this a great way to make everyone slow down. Perhaps this is the CHP's worst nightmare because they won't be able to collect money from the citizenry. Perhaps I'm alone in my psychological peripheral speedometer phobia, but I still think it's a little weird, a little disconcerting and quite possibly the end of the world. OK, maybe not the last bit.
I was out of the office Friday when Caroline did the fuel economy update, so the numbers included there were out of date! I know, right? What a crock.
But rest assured, here are your monthly fuel economy numbers for one Edmunds Long-Term 2011 Toyota Sienna SE.
Best: 26.3 mpg
Worst: 14.7 mpg (interestingly, Dan Edmunds got these one after the other)
Lifetime average: 20.0
EPA combined: 20 (How about that!)
Best range: 421.6 miles
Most fuel: 18.591 gallons (20 max)
Toyota Sienna
Ah, the Toyota Sienna — not a bad-looking cabin. Still, we had a Chrysler Town and Country in here a couple of months ago and one of the things that struck me was how great its cabin looks.
Relative to the Toyota and the Honda, the Town and Country's cabin looks more finished and put-together, in my opinion. Pretty upmarket compared to the others. Or maybe I just have a thing for chrome.
Chrysler Town and Country
Honda Odyssey
And then there's the Odyssey. For me, the Odyssey's cabin is the weakest of the bunch. It's functional for sure, but a laggard when it comes to materials quality and design.
Which cabin gets your vote?
Hi there. I'd like to get this meeting started and get down to business.
Apparently, from what I've seen of the interior on the 2011 Toyota Sienna, none of you in this room know each other. So I'd like to take this opportunity to have all seven of you who designed part of the Sienna's interior to stand up and introduce yourselves.
You see, not knowing what the other six of you were doing, has led to this center stack being one of the biggest ergonomic fumbles in recent memory. Not only can I not reach most of the controls, but everything seems to have been placed without regard for any other control. This interior is the Camaro steering wheel of the minivan world. Oh, and the to the guy who designed the shifter 10 years ago, time to try something new.
Croissants are in the back, along with some water that tastes like detergent and some mediocre coffee. Let's not have this meeting again.
A few weeks ago I picked up a book called Secret Stairs, a walking guide detailing over 40 short hikes around Los Angeles. Thought it would be good fun to explore new neighborhoods, get some exercise, spend a little quality time with the family, you get the idea.
Our friends who were coming along on our first secret walk just bought a new Mustang convertible and offered to drive the four of us to Pasadena. It was a choice between the Mustang and the long-term Toyota Sienna that I was driving for the weekend.
The two kids immediately vetoed the Ford.
"What?" I asked. "You crazy kids would rather ride in a minivan, with no DVD player, mind you, than in a brand new Mustang convertible? What are you, girls?!
Yes, they replied, adding that they preferred having a lot of open space in the car to the "fun" of a convertible.
We eventually left in the Sienna. After the "fun" three-mile hike, I surveyed the damage done to the Toyota's interior.
Shoes, two jackets, water bottles, a DS player, hats were all left inside, even a pair of shorts in the far back where one girl changed clothes.
Looks like the need for all that space around them was mostly for their junk.
Have you been wondering where our long-term 2010 Toyota Sienna SE has been all week?
Well, it's been chasing a Lexus LFA around Southern California. That's right, we've been using our long-term Sienna as a chase vehicle for our Ultimate 2012 Lexus LFA Road Trip. Hey, the photo and video crews didn't fit in the $375,000 supercar, so they had to go somewhere.
I just think it's incredible that the same car company designed, engineered and built both. Lets see Ferrari do that.
After 10,000 miles of driving our long-term 2011 Toyota Sienna SE is asking for its first oil change. That right folks, its first oil change.
We'll let you know how the dealer treated us and how much the service cost later in the week.
We headed east to lights of Vegas last Tuesday morning. 1,000 miles of open desert, desert dwellers and a few open throttle passes. However, the photo and video team weren't in the much hyped Lexus LFA. No, we tried to keep up with the supercar in our long-term Toyota Sienna.
The idea was to see how it worked out as a mobile studio, mobile workstation and all around support vehicle. We started out our trip a little frazzled because we had an intense dyno session the day before. But the idea of the adventure waiting ahead of us in (or near) a $375,000 exotic was exciting.
Every part of the day was spent getting to a location, shooting at a location, then heading to the next location. Thankfully the seats of the Sienna were comfortable and the rear air conditioning vents were nearby. Yes, we actually had a mini-heatwave in the upper 80s during our run.
The Sienna has plenty of sauce, which was nice. There were plenty of times we had to catch up to the LFA after doing a drive by. A drive by, as you might imagine, is when we set up cameras on the side of the road for the car to drive past us. Sometimes the LFA didn't stop and we hurriedly packed up and kept heading east. Once we caught up to them, we did car-to-car action. Unfortunately, the second row windows don't roll all the way down. This meant we had to balance the camera(s) on the glass, or a sweatshirt bundled on top of the window. Not the best option for the visual artist.
Another downside to the van was the lack of a 110 outlet. The curse of the base model! We bought a converter so we can run our battery chargers, laptops and all other manner of equipment for our mobile studio. The amount of gear needed to edit while moving created a rats nest of cables and boxes in the second row. I nearly rolled out of the second row seat at a Starbucks because my feet were tightly bound in USB cables.
Eating a sit-down meal is not an option during these road trips. Burger wrappers ran deep by the end. To supplement the lack of rest stops, we packed in a lot of energy drinks, waters and snacks (consisting of trail mix and beef jerky) into the plentiful storage areas located around the van. I'm betting if a future staffer gets stuck out in the middle of nowhere in the Sienna, they would be able to sustain themselves on the raisins and beef scab that tumbled into the cracks between and under the seats during this trip.
We returned the van covered in bugs and smelling a little funkier than before. Look, four guys in the hot desert working under stress for 18 hours a day and eating crappy food ain't gonna leave it pretty. The next guy in line for the Sienna was the big boss. Sorry, boss.
I'll remember our adventure for the rest of my life. The LFA was the reason for the road trip, but the Sienna made the road trip.
Last week, while it was chasing a very black Lexus LFA around the southwest, our long-term 2011 Toyota Sienna SE blew through 10,000 miles on its odometer.
Yesterday we dropped our 2011 Toyota Sienna SE off at Toyota Santa Monica as directed by the persuasive warning light on the dash. If you recall, we brought the Sienna in for service once before. At that visit we learned the salesman hadn't entered us into their database, making us ineligible for the Toyota Care free maintenance program. Well, that's all worked out now.
"Your oil change and tire rotation are covered under the maintenance program," our service advisor began, "...and the recall. It's also due for the brake light switch recall." He told us that parts were in stock, so we asked them to handle that at the same time.
A few hours later we received a phone call from our advisor. "We don't have the recall part in stock after all. It will arrive tomorrow morning. We can have it ready for you before noon." This time the Sienna actually was ready when he called back.
Total Cost: None
Days out of Service: 1
The alley behind my house, which leads to my garage, is decorated with slashes, gouges and torn paint remnants from delivery vehicles. As I lumbered down the alley in the 2011 Toyota Sienna SE, I was afraid I was going to make a new contribution to this gallery of woe. The rearview mirrors cleared by inches. Once I was safely in the parking area (forget about putting this baby in the garage) I saw that our new Sienna has an assortment of damage including a door ding, curb rash and the right front fender has been flexed so that the gaps are now uneven. All because this is bigger than expected and harder to safely pilot.
I thought it was only my impressions until my son came along for a ride and, without prompting, commented: "This is like being in the cockpit of an A380." I asked him what that was and he said, "They slapped a pair of wings on a hotel and called it a jet." I feel a little like that in this not-so-minivan. I float around inside it without much feeling of belonging. Of course, if you lug around a lot of stuff, and people, this is just the ticket. But before you buy it, ask the dealer for an extended test drive, take it home and make sure it fits in your garage. It didn't in mine.
I like this little cubby for the removable center section of the second-row seat in our 2011 Toyota Sienna, and it's not just because it makes the seat look like it's doing an extreme yoga pose.
I'm the kind of person who benefits from having a predetermined place to put something when it's not being used. A pen-behind-the-ear kind of person. A silhouette-painted pegboard kind of person. With the dedicated cubby, I'm never going to misplace that center seat; and I also don't have to find a place in my house or garage to store it (and hope I can still find it when I need it next time).
No panic moments when your passenger count unexpectedly goes from four to eight while out and about (it could happen). Just unstrap the seat from its handy resting place and reinstall it.
Our long-term Honda Odyssey doesn't have this little cubby. Sure, you could just plop the extricated center seat in the cargo area and let it roll around willy-nilly, but I like this tidy solution better.
I hadn't driven our Long Term 2011 Toyota Sienna SE since the epic 2011 5-minivan comparison. Minivans tend to get a lot of love in our office because we have (we in general, I certainly do not) kids and dogs and stuff to move around and minivans are great at that. So when I saw the van open, I snagged it quick. What I didn't notice during the comparison was how much this vehicle rocks like a dinghy in the bow-wave from passing vehicles.
There's a left-hand-turn on my way home that has me stopped while cars fly by at a maximum of 30 mph. The van is super-quiet and you can't hear them go by, but MAN can you feel it. The Sienna doesn't shake, it just floats around on the suspension for a few seconds until the next car sends it into motion again. Not a deal breaker, but annoying and something I'd have to deal with every day.
I just figured the "sporty" version wouldn't be as willowy as a normal Toyota.
How many pieces of IKEA furniture fit in the back of a Toyota Sienna with the second-row seats still in place?
I spent time in the Sienna today driving around under the concrete byways and parking structures of the Orange County airport while listening XM's Pearl Jam Radio. The route, at many points (like while in the parking structure), completely obscured the satellite antenna's view of the sky.
In fact, even when circling the terminals where there were gaps of only a few feet between the above concrete slabs, I never once experienced a drop.
This is in stark contrast to many other cars in the fleet. The Raptor, for example, drops for no reason all and at every semi-justified opportunity, like an underpass. It's quite pathetic.
It is for the this reason that I hereby award the Sienna our first-ever Best Satellite Radio Reception in the Fleet Award.
Congratulations, Toyota. Or whoever is responsible for this.
Well, the headline really says it all, does it not?
Probably my favorite thing about minivans is their abundant and wildly versatile interior storage. The Sienna's clamshell glovebox arrangement is a perfect example of that abundance.
Just look at all that unused storage space. Even our band of cleanup-indifferent miscreants hasn't managed to put a single parking stub, Red Bull can or used tissue (one of my favorites) in there yet. But if we did, each could have its own compartment.
Instead, it's the lower box which seems to be collecting the traditional buildup of junk. And hey, look, is that an owner's manual? Amazing.
When I first heard about a sporty version of the Toyota Sienna, I chuckled to myself. At that moment, I thought that was the epitome of marketing speak, intended to impress the uninformed. A few minutes later, I found myself having lunch with one of the Sienna's designers, and to my surprise, I began to understand where he was coming from.
As it turned out, we had a lot in common, and followed similar paths in the 1990s. Had I continued on the path I was on, we could have been classmates at design school. He, like me, is into motorcycles and bought a Lotus Elise when they were finally brought over in 2004. Unlike myself, though, he grew up and started a family. I stayed behind to hold onto my youth as long as I could.
With points scored in my book, the designer began explaining the sporty SE model and I started buying into it. Why not add a hint of athleticism to a minivan? Not so much that it destroys the ride quality, but just enough to get a decent feel for the road. Maybe this is the track hauler that tows your track car up to Willow Springs, or to impress upon your numerous children that "daddy doesn't drive beige."
I got it. He won me over. I'm not the target demographic, but if I had settled down and started acting like an adult (bleeech!), maybe part of my psyche would have overlapped with the Sienna on some Venn diagram.
What's more of a pain than selling your house? Moving out of it.
But I must say, having the Toyota Sienna in our long-term fleet makes moving nearly tolerable. I did countless quick runs between the houses this weekend, some in the rain, and having a minivan was way better than being at the mercy of the weather while using our Ford Raptor.
There's not much you can't get into a Sienna. Trust me, I've tried.
I'm in the process of moving and I had to transport a few bits of unneeded furniture to the Great Kelly Toepke Garage Saleapolooza 2011 that'll be taking place this weekend. While I used the Odyssey last time around for moving a whole heap of boxes, I took the Sienna this time to compare how it does as a moving van.
Simply put, I think it's superior. First, the second row center seat portion is easy to remove and there's a place to put it. Second, the second row seats have a greater range of sliding motion. Though the Odyssey's seats can slide just as far forward as the Sienna's, they do so for third-row access and then don't lock in place once in its forwardmost position. This is not only good for moving things, but I'd also think it would be good for keeping a kid locked in a child seat within closer arms reach for the administration of a sippy cup or whatever.
The Sienna's second row also slides much further rearward. This is not only good for "locking" big items in place (like my old chest of Ikea drawers), but for long-legged dudes who'd still be OK with somone administering a sippy cup to him (what, do you like spilling all over yourself? No, didn't think so).
Of course, the Dodge Grand Caravan and Chrysler Town & Country have Stow 'N Go, which is clearly superior for hauling stuff. Plus, the Stow 'N Go seats are no longer only slightly more comfortable than lawn furniture. They do limit front seat legroom, however.
This weekend I was loading my kids' bikes into the back of our long-term 2011 Toyota Sienna SE. Don't tell anyone, but in the process I scratched up the pillar trim and destroyed the plastic cap thing that covers the third-row seatbelt mechanism.
Hey look, the Sienna's rear windows pop out. I never noticed that before. I wonder if the rear side glass in the Honda Odyssey can be opened. I'll check and get back to you.
The Sienna's door came be opened and closed by a button on the overhead console between the driver and the passenger or a button on the van's keyfob. It can also be opened in the traditional manner by pulling on a handle located on the exterior of the door just above the license plate and it can be closed with this button, which is located on the door's bottom and is only visible when the liftgate is open.
Great feature. One of those things you miss on vehicles like this once you've gotten used to having it. My wife and I owned a Passat wagon before the Mazda CX-9. The Passat had a power liftgate. The Mazda does not. We miss it.
In today's post I will posit that the 2011 Toyota Sienna is the new Man Van, inheriting the title from the Dodge Grand Caravan and before it the Chevy Astro/GMC Safari twins. It's a simple three-part argument:
1) All Man Vans either have motor* or are rear-wheel drive.
2) The Toyota Sienna SE has motor.
3) Therefore, the Toyota Sienna SE is a Man Van.
But I'd press the issue even father than that by saying the Sienna looks the part of a Man Van in a big way. Just check out the monochromatic treatment going on here:
That's right, the mirrors, wheels and nearly all the trim (the only real exception is the grille) are all given a finish which matches the paint. Combine that with the fact that this machine can actually get out of its own way when its throttle is opened and I declare the 2011 Toyota Sienna SE the new Man Van.
It's something I'm not embarrassed to drive. Because Man Vans rule.
* The Grand Caravan, in its latest generation, offers a huffing 4.0-liter V6 which at the time we tested it made it the fastest minivan we've ever tested. Certainly a Man Van, just a bit dated.
I was offered the Leaf the other day to drive down to MD Automotive where we'd be running the 1M on the dyno. While I like to drive the Leaf, the range and cargo capacity was a big concern.
"What else do we have available?" I asked. The voice on the other end of the phone replied, "The Miata, the Porsche..... We have the Sienna."
Perfect solution to my problem. I grabbed the keys, headed to the studio and packed all my gear into the ample cargo area. The spring assisted 3rd row seats were super easy to drop and roll to make more room for my bulky gear. In the Honda Odyssey you have to muscle the seat into position. While it's really not a big deal in the Honda, the Sienna's ease of use is appreciated.
It finally arrived. The Toyota Care free maintenance coupon booklet for our 2011 Toyota Sienna is here. Thank goodness. And just 3 months after we submitted the paperwork, the second time If you are counting, that is 4 months and 12,000 miles after we bought the van and completed the necessary paperwork the first time.
Now we are on track. Let's do some maintaining.
This weekend I stuffed a twin box spring and mattress into the Sienna without removing either of the second-row seats. And I'll have you know nothing reaffirms being fully domesticated more than hauling a kids bed around in a minivan.
Still, I can appreciate it...
Anyhow, Riswick told you some time ago about the Sienna's superb hauling abilities (over the Odyssey) thanks to second-row seats which slide all the way forward. It is this feature and this feature alone which allowed the two pieces to fit without removal of the second row. Wasn't even a challenge. And good thing, because I would have had to leave the seats at the mattress store.
Just like Bob's Country Bunker in the The Blues Brothers, the Sienna has both kinds — knobs and buttons. At Bob's it was Country and Western (music, that is), but in the Sienna, well, it's how you choose your temperature.
You might know by now that I'm a knob fan. They're easier to find, quicker to use, more intuitive and, yes, more expensive, which likely explains why Toyota uses a knob for the primary (driver's side) temperature control and buttons for the passenger side.
Of course, any time the two temps are "synced" there's no need to use the buttons. Keeping them synced, however, is known to be detrimental to your marriage. The Wife can use the buttons. I'll stick with the knob.
Throughout its three generations, the Toyota Sienna has been a pretty traditional, inside-the-box type of minivan. That's certainly not a bad thing, because if you're buying a minivan, you're almost certainly looking for traditional, simple and functional all the way.
But let me take a moment to honor a time when Toyota's minivan was, quite frankly, just a little bonkers. That's right, the Toyota Previa.
You want untraditional, how about a midengine minivan? Check out the diagram below from the 1994 Previa brochure. Sitting underneath the front seats is the 2.4-liter 138-horsepower four-cylinder placed on its side at a 75-degree angle. This increased interior space, evened out the weight distribution and lowered the center of gravity. This weirdo powertrain was also hooked up the rear wheels, while there was an option for all-wheel drive (a rarity today amongst minivans, but less-so then) and a limited-slip differential. And get this, you could get a five-speed manual ... in a minivan. Of course, that wasn't unique at the time since you could also row your own in the Chrysler vans. The manual died after 1993.
Now, perhaps you'd think that 138-horsepower pulling around up to 3,750 pounds of all-wheel-drive minivan would result in glacial acceleration. And you'd be absolutely right. Because of the engine's odd placement, a V6 was out of the question, so for 1994 Toyota offered a Roots-type supercharger that bumped power up to 161 horsepower. An improvement certainly, but consider that our 4,461-pound Sienna has 265 horsepower ...
Now, perhaps you'd think that with a 138-horsepower four-cylinder, the Previa would get good gas mileage. And you'd be absolutely wrong. Using today's EPA calculations, an automatic, rear-drive Previa would return 15 mpg city/20 mpg highway and 17 mpg combined. The highway number dropped to 19 with all-wheel drive, while the supercharger didn't really change anything. Either way, that stinks by today's standards. The V6-powered Chrysler minivans were slightly thriftier, though it was the 90s, so nobody really cared.
Beyond the engine, the Previa also was unique in that you didn't have to completely remove the (optional!) third row seat should you need additional cargo space. No, it didn't fold away into the floor like the future Honda Odyssey, but it swung up to the cabin's size like Toyota Land Cruisers continue to do today. Definitely better than calling over an American Gladiator to heave out the back row. The Previa also had a panoramic sunroof, swiveling second-row captain's chairs and a separately powered roof-mounted air-conditioner unit — features that would appear in later vans.
Let's also not ignore its futuristic exterior and interior styling. The latter in particular brought all the interior controls toward the driver — something our Sienna could certainly learn from.
I'll stop now, since this is certainly way more than you ever wanted to know about a '90s Toyota minivan, but it was a pretty cool car in its own right that actually sold pretty well. It was also indicative of a period when Toyota wasn't so hopelessly conservative and dowdy.
Last week I used to 2011 Honda Odyssey to buy new panels for my daughter's closet doors. Now I'm using the 2011 Toyota Sienna to take the old panels — and a lot of other junk — to the dump.
And so the middle seats have to come out once again. But this time it's the Sienna's turn.
The release handle for these seats is centered under the front cushion. Pull on the handle to flip the cushion up and release four floor hooks. At this point the release handle becomes a meaty carrying handle and the seat comes out easily.
My scale says the Sienna's seat weighs 52.5 pounds, about 5 pounds more than an Odyssey seat. That's pushing it, but the handle eases the process so much that I prefer this to the Odyssey, whose seats are a bit more finicky to disengage from the floor while forcing you to invent your own hand holds.
But that's just the passenger side. This is the "40" side of a 60/40 middle seat layout.
Yeah, that's right, the driver's side middle seat includes a "60" seat frame, even when the center seat itself has been removed. Note that both halves of the center seat's seatbelt are right here.
That's actually quite smart, because it means the Sienna's center seat cushion assembly is small and light enough to store inside the vehicle. You can roll with a center aisle and buckets every day, but whenever you need to make room for an eighth body you can whip out the center seat and quickly snap it into place.
By contrast the Odyssey's free-standing center middle seat connects to the floor all on its lonesome via its very own hooks and is therefore larger and must be garaged when not in use.
There is a downside to the Sienna approach, and that downside is weight. The "60" half of the Sienna's middle seat weighs 71.5 pounds as seen above. It's also bulkier to store in the garage.
When the Sienna's seats are out a bit of the sliding mechanism stays behind, giving us an idea of just how far the middle seats can move fore and aft. These bits don't stick up very far and they can be slid forward to get them out of the way, but its possible they could present an obstacle to certain unboxed items.
The seat tracks are no problem for my old panels, which fit just as easily here as the new ones did in the Odyssey. And my tape says that uncut 4x8 panels will fit, too.
Through it all, the Sienna's middle row center seat (yellow) stands ready and waiting in its hidey hole.
Yes, another blog about stuff in the Sienna. But for me, this was unplanned. I just happened to be lucky enough to drive the Sienna when I was in need of cargo space.
I bought a mirror a week or so ago. When was hanging said mirror last night, I noticed very small cracks in the glass. There is no real way I would have gotten this 55 lb monster into my car or my wife's car easily. Yes, our Sienna saved the day.
But when I was walking back to the van from exchanging the mirror in the store, I focused on the reflectors at the lower corners of the rear bumper. The more I looked at them, the cheaper they appeared. These were the smaller versions of the reflectors I see on school buses around here. I bet I could find this at a bike store as a part intended to attach to the spokes of a little kid's bike.
I know beauty is in the eye of the beholder, so am I the only one that doesn't like this design feature? Am I being way too picky?
A little while back I discovered our long-term 2011 Toyota Sienna SE was ordered with Bluetooth audio. I was a little surprised by this because:
1. It's a van
2. It doesn't even have Navi
Previously I didn't think Bluetooth audio added much value over an iPod cable, but I liked the convenience of not having to hard-wire connect my phone all the time to run the music. It didn't have a lot of functionality due to the lack of Navi display, or perhaps I couldn't figure it out.
And if there's a degradation in sound quality (there must be, right?) I didn't hear it.
(I'll save the "I hate compressed digital music files" manifesto for another day.)
How about you? Is Bluetooth audio a fav feature of yours or on the wish list?
If there's one thing I hate more than math, it's moving. I despise relocating, truly, I do. For that reason, I've only moved twice in my life (rent control, FTW). My girlfriend, however, seems to make a sport out of moving, as she's changed addresses three times in three years. Like Kelly, James and Dan, I benefitted from having two minivans in our long-term lot. I managed to snag the keys to the Sienna for the move and I came away impressed, on many levels.
The Sienna can hold a lot of stuff. Duh, thanks for that breaking news, Captain Obvious. But I was still quite impressed, since we made the move in only three trips (and the last one was barely loaded). But what I really enjoyed was the amount of power our Sienna has. It pulls away from a stoplight with plenty of oomph, and doesn't sound half bad doing it. Handling and maneuverability also receive high marks, especially when dashing for, then having to parallel park in whatever opened on the street.
I've been recommending the Odyssey as the minivan of choice for quite some time, but now, I think I'll be telling people to look at the Sienna, too. Now if only it could do burnouts.
If you've been following along, you know I like to have a look at common wear areas on the interiors of our long-term cars. Seat bolsters are a particular focal point. Most recently, we looked at the details of our long-term Ford Raptor.
As the Sienna creeps close to the 15,000-mile mark, I figured now is as good a time as any to have a look.
As you can see in the above image, the Sienna's seat-bottom bolsters are utterly indifferent to editor's backsides sliding over them. Thus far, this part of the van just doesn't care. And that's true elsewhere as well.
Same thing here. Toyota's seat materials are durable.
The steering wheel is also fairing quite well. The perforated surface seems like a perfect place for grime to accumulate (and be especially visible in this light hue), but that's not happening. It hardly looks used.
The armrest, too, looks good. And perhaps you remember the trouble we had with our long-term Prius's armrest? It wasn't good.
The driver's side floor mat shows use in the places where our feet reside, but unlike the mat in our late M3 at roughly the same mileage, it's hardly a problem.
The Sienna has two gloveboxes. The door on the upper box is very thin plastic and is spring loaded. It closes with no damping and a solid clank. I wonder if this matters to you in a $35,000 minivan?
Personally, I'm more focused on the utility of a vehicle in this class and the fact that this van has a second glovebox outweighs its sound and feel in operation.
Would this bother you given the Sienna's purpose and cost?
No electronics in the Sienna’s keyfob, or at least none that I can discern I’ve damaged after several hours in seawater this weekend. Many of the cars in our fleet have buttons embedded in the keyfob, or they’re simply transponders to the ignition. They’re not the kind of keys you can string around your neck when headed out for a surf. Until I invest in a lockbox, I'm mindful of these little plastic communicators.
I didn't do any research on the Sienna key before getting it wet. Didn’t know if it contained an expensive Intel chip or what. But whatever was in there looked pretty well sealed. I sought a second opinion.
“Looks safe to me,” our electronics editor Doug Newcomb said. Doug had a stake in the assessment; if we were wrong, we faced a long walk back to Topanga. The Sienna opened its doors manually and fired right up after I toweled off the key. So far, so good. No unintended anything, unless you count calm reflection during a gorgeous sunset drive back from Malibu.
When the sign-out sheet came around on Thursday, I initialed for the Sienna, really only planning to need it Friday afternoon. With the Wife and Kid enjoying daily rain and wilting humidity in Japan, I didn't need a soccer bus for the weekend. The whole fish-and-a-bicycle thing. As it turned out, the holiday weekend became a great chance to bro down with the Sienna. Chirp the tires and make the Swagger Wagon one of the fellas. It came through spectacularly.
It hauled boards to the beach, no need to hassle with racks, and left plenty of room for backpacks, wetsuits, coffee cups and maple bars. It transported five hungry dudes in business-class comfort after someone made an inspired suggestion for Fiesta Grill fish tacos. It hung on the Fiat 500's tail as Doug Newcomb whipped the latter up Topanga Canyon to fetch his board. I didn't remember the Sienna being as flat and composed, nor hanging onto the right gears, as it was while it climbed the twisty grade.
And to prove we don't doom the Sienna solely to a life as moving van and furniture mule, we had it carry a 12-pack of Red Stripe over to where the band jams, man. With strong sun, temps in the high 80s and 80 percent humidity, the weekend was made for fish tacos and Jamaican lager (as Takahashi can attest about the latter anyway).
The Sienna didn't particularly stand out when I drove it during Edmunds' minivan comparison several months ago. I liked the Quest best for its fold-flat second row, seamless CVT and deep reservoir of Nissan power. But I may have short-changed the Sienna. I'm still not digging the way the second-row seats slide and fold; seems like it creates too much wasted space. But there's plenty of motor, and the smooth-shifting transmission responds quickly to throttle input, whether creeping behind another bumper or hauling at open freeway speed. The Sienna just does the job.
Now it just needs some DVD so we can watch Bruce Lee films en route to the next Pacquiao fight.
Because the Sienna did nothing to deserve running Chingy through its audio system. Rude and reckless, Al! But, I believe we've purged all trace elements through subsequent selections.
Cool thing about the Sienna's Bluetooth audio streaming: leaving the system on the Aux/streaming setting starts playback from where you left off, as soon as the system detects the last paired player. It'll start playing before you've even pulled your phone from your pocket. This isn't uncommon on newer cars, but the Sienna has it down quick and transparent.
Bad thing about the Sienna's Bluetooth audio streaming: it sounds like donkey.
Gain is about half what you get using a USB cable (although my iP3G didn't like being on the cable either, cracking and popping so as to be unlistenable). You have to crank the volume, and even then you're getting mostly crispy highs. BT streaming is slick and convenient, but it still (to me, anyway) sucks too much body and tone out of recorded music.
The standards group behind Bluetooth is more interested in 3D video, low power consumption, and the healthcare industry now, so no telling if audio quality will improve in the future. But whatever they're doing has excited Apple enough to join the Bluetooth group's board. With mobile Wi-Fi on the horizon for passenger cars (Audi and Ford already offering it), the larger question is, will we even be using Bluetooth in our cars through the next decade?
For now, BT streaming works great for sports broadcasts, audiobooks, and podcasts, but donkey for kicking out late, great Strummer jams.
After spending a few hot days in and out of the very black, very hot interior of our VW Jetta TDI, I was happy to climb aboard the leatherette/cloth combination seats of the 2011 Toyota Sienna SE.
Initially, I was disappointed we chose the SE, and its lack of leather interior was one of my gripes. But after seeing how nicely the seat fabric has held up so far, and having the comfort of the cooler fabric in the summer heat, I no longer miss the option of leather in the minivan at all.
Today I had to haul my six-foot ladder over to a friend's house. He's about to have a new baby, so his man cave is fast being tranformed into a nursery. And today was painting day.
The good news is that our long-term 2011 Toyota Sienna swallowed the ladder with ease, as it slid right between the van's second-row bucket seats. It didn't even have to think about it. I just threw it in there.
The most amazing part about it his how much room there was between the top of the ladder and the Sienna's front seats. Nearly two-feet. This van is huge.
Back in March the Oldham clan grabbed our long-term 2011 Honda Odyssey and went skiing. We packed up the van and headed for California’s Mammoth Mountain. Well, it’s vacation time again. This time our destination is California’s Big Bear Lake and our transport of choice is our long-term 2011 Toyota Sienna SE.
I would have taken the Odyssey again without hesitation, but I thought it would be fun to take the Sienna this time and compare it to the Odyssey. Sort of a family trip comparison test.
The Sienna and I will return next week with the full report. Wish me luck.
We bought our long-term 2011 Toyota Sienna SE only seven months ago, but it has been a workhorse. Yesterday the minivan covered its 15,000th mile. Four miles later I drove it through an automated car wash and took the above photo with the cool green mood lighting.
Meanwhile, the van has yet to need a repair or an unscheduled dealer visit. But it is coming up on its third oil change.
Back in March I road tripped with the family in our long-term 2011 Honda Odyssey Touring. Destination: Mammoth Lakes, CA. Last week I road tripped with the family in our long-term 2011 Toyota Sienna SE. Destination: Big Bear Lake, CA.
Two lakes. Two vans. And so the question is: Which is best?
If this were a generation of vans ago I'd be voting Odyssey all the way. But now this is a tough decision. This new Sienna in SE trim is very likable. In fact, there are a few things about the Sienna I prefer.
1) Steering. I prefer the heft and on-center feel of the Sienna's steering. On the highway it just feels more locked in.
2) Suspension tuning. The Sienna SE has no wasted body motions. None. Zero. Zilch.
3) Driver's seat. On road trips I'm more comfortable in the Toyota. I think the bottom seat cushion is longer and it works better for me.
4) Shifter. It's gated. Has a manual gate. And I love the fact that you downshift the van from 6th to 4th gear just by moving the shifter over into the manual gate.
Still, I'd buy the Odyssey. Why? Well, because there are two very important things I prefer about the Honda. The inside and the outside. Lets face it, the Toyota is hidiously ugly inside and out. And the Honda isn't.
I also find it extremely frustrating that the Sienna SE's low hanging bodykit scrapes itself up on every curb and driveway like this is some low slung sports car. If I was making payments on this thing and it was collecting road rash at this rapid pace I would not be happy.
Meanwhile, the Honda's steering, suspension tuning, driver's seat and shifter aren't so inferior to the Toyota's that they are deal breakers for me. And honestly, anything else I can think of on these two vans is basically a wash.
But the Toyota's design is a deal breaker from where I sit. Too bad. It's a nice driving van that has treated my family and our staff very well.
By the way, I also prefer Big Bear.
Why, yes, minivans have grown. Here's a quick comparsion between the modern-day 2011 Toyota Sienna and the first-generation Dodge Grand Caravan:
2011 Toyota Sienna:
Wheelbase: 119.3 in
Length: 200.2 in
Width: 78.1 in
Height: 68.7 in
1990 Dodge Grand Caravan:
Wheelbase: 119.0 in
Length: 190.5 in
Width: 72.2 in
Height: 64.8 in
And that's the long-wheelbase Dodge. At 175.9 inches long, the SWB Caravan was just too puny to play with.
There's a little game we like to play here in the editorial department. It's called, Cargo Roulette, and the rules are pretty simple:
1. Drive home a test car and load it up with stuff you want to get rid of.
2. The next day, hand the keys over to a co-worker and force them to unload your unwanted items at their own house.
In the dark of last night, I loaded a 52-inch TV stand, a Weber grille and a wine-bottle-and-glass rack into the Toyota Sienna.
This morning, I made sure Mike Magrath was signed-out in the Sienna for tonight.
Let's see how he reacts.
First things first: let's not confuse the concepts of "simple" and "easy to use." While the 2011 Toyota Sienna certain has an easy to use interior, it's also incredibly simple.
Kindergarden simple. ATM simple. Lowest-common denominator simple.
There's no learning curve here and there's really no satisfaction or confirmation in any of the button actions and functions. Everything works perfectly well, we can't forget that, but nothing feels like or looks like it belongs in a modern car. Buttons are overlarge and overlabeled. It reminds me of those telephones and calculators you can buy from the medical supply store for your grandmother when her eyes start to go (or if the fingers you are using to dial are too fat) with the big buttons. Or the big plastic ones you use to keep toddlers entertained and from drooling on your actual calculator.
Again, it all works just fine and takes no time to figure out — you could work just about everything here your first time in the van while juggling babies — but every time I see it I'm reminded that Toyota is a volume player and interesting, clever and cool are often seen as confusing. But really, I don't think people are as clueless as this interior is assuming they are.
Over the weekend, our 2011 Toyota Sienna began showing this maintenance reminder whenever I started the car. We last changed the oil at 10,756 miles. And though it would be another 285 miles before we actually hit the 5,000 mile mark, we figured it was close enough to take it in for service.
It is especially important to keep to the manufacture's maintenance schedule when you are dealing with free maintenance programs. Failure to do so can void the maintenance program and have potential warranty implications.
I took the car to Toyota Santa Monica and handed over our voucher for free maintenance. This is actually the first time we had used one of the vouchers. We got them well after we got the car.
Our service advisor called us later in the day to recommend that we replace the cabin filter. The price for that was about $80, but with the "coupon" that he would graciously add, it would end up being $70. After a bit of research, we passed on the filter. According our maintenance guide, the Sienna does not require a new cabin filter until 30,000 miles.
If you want to avoid the upsell, it is always a good idea to familiarize yourself with what items the car actually needs. A less-prepared person would've paid $70 for that "free" oil change and tire rotation.
Total Cost: $0
Days out of service: 0
"Spotted in the Wild" is term that was coined by someone here to indicate a car-sighting during the course of one's daily doings. I think that someone was Caroline. And I'm hoping it wasn't Monticello, as he might request a royalty for this post.
Anyway, many of the Toyota Siennas I have seen in SoCal lately have been in SE trim. Previously, I would have thought this weird, believing that not too many people would want a sporty minivan. But the Sienna in SE trim only has better vehicle dynamics than the Odyssey (and every other minivan) and also looks better. The rest of the Siennas are worse, of course — floaty and ugly.
The SE version of the Sienna is really good. It's the best minivan out there.
Our 2011 Toyota Sienna is looking a little ragged. The bumper looks like this right now. I guess our Band-Aid repair job held just about as long as you'd expect such a fix to last. A visit to the body shop is in our future.
Our 2011 Toyota Sienna lives a rough life. It's the minivan life. Sure, passing the keys around to 30 different drivers exaggerates the abuse, but minivans are made for this sort of thing.
If the minivan in your driveway is pristine, I commend you. Then I ask, are you really using it? I draw the comparison to owning a truck. If you don't have a dent here or a ding there then maybe you don't need it. I'm not trying to justify the degree to which our Sienna is marred. But I am saying that when it comes time to repair the front bumper cover, we aren't going to worry about these dings and scuffs. Not until we get closer to selling it, at least.
You've heard about all the space our longterm 2011 Toyota Sienna has, but I'll put it to you in terms you racers understand — this thing is a 24-tire hauler. Easily. Now, that's with 195-series 14-inchers, but if you're racing on anything bigger than that, you're a baller and you own your own enclosed trailer anyway. Or a boxtruck.
Anyway, ahead of our prep for last weekend's race, my teammate Bitter Dan grew skeptical when he heard I was bringing a minivan. There was a lot to do, and much equipment to shuffle around.
Bitter Dan: Would be helpful if you could come down with the Raptor so we can pick up all the tubs, spares, and tires from the shop and bring them to my house.
Me: I'll bring a minivan
Bitter Dan: will a minivan fit our box-o-spare parts and 8 wheels/tires?
Me: This minivan will fit the number of corpses a honey badger can generate in a whole month.
Bitter Dan: sure? we need all the suspension and steering bits otherwise, well crash. also need fuel jugs and drip pan.
When I rolled up in the Sienna, Bitter Dan nearly fell over. Yes, the Sienna is huge.
But it doesn't drive huge. Other editors have noted that the SE trim level has spot-on damping and ride, and I agree — it snuffs out impacts without harshness. There's no reason for the softer base Sienna suspension.
And beyond pure swallowing capacity, it's a user-friendly race support vehicle — crazy-low step-in heights, sliding doors with gigantic apertures, a flat load floor, power door & liftgate... even skeptical Bitter Dan has seen the light.
We posted last week that our 2011 Toyota Sienna was not aging well front bumper. Take a look.
See the damage to both the bumper plastic and the wheel liner plastic? The metal screws holding the liner to the bumper ripped right through in multiple locations. This made the bumper itself sag, which caused it to catch on objects (namely, cement parking stall blocks), that in turn pulled the bumper off even further.
We didn't want to take it to the body shop, but realized that no combination of c-clamps, washers or Gorilla Glue would put Humpty back like new. So after 4 days under the knife and $1,000 our Sienna was fixed. The wheel liner is new. The front bumper is new. One (fortunate?) byproduct of the surgery is that the pre-existing front bumper scuffs are now gone.
Total Cost: $998.52
Days out of Service: 4
Back in the mid to late '90s, clear tail lights were all the rage. I even bought a set for my car, though they didn't last very long. Nearly every cop who saw them wanted to give me a fix-it ticket. I got tired of being hassled and put the factory ones back on.
Nowadays clear tail lights are all over the place. The Lexus RX350 has them, as did our departed Mitsubishi Outlander GT and even our Toyota Sienna, though these lights are exclusive to the SE trim level. All other Sienna models have the more traditional tail lights with red reflectors.
I prefer these tail lights to the clear ones. I'm over the clear look and I think the Sienna looks better with the red lenses.
Which lights do you prefer?
Popular minivans like our Toyota Sienna SE have excellent resale value. People are always in need of a spacious vehicle to carry their families, but can’t always afford these minivans when they are new. But after depreciation has taken its hit, these vehicles are a great choice for budget-minded consumers in need of a family hauler. After the kids have grown up, the minivan's retained value will help the owner get the most for his trade-in.
However, retained value isn't always dictated by the best-selling vehicle. If that was the case, the Dodge Grand Caravan would have the highest resale value. Instead, popularity in the used-car market is what really drives resale value. Hondas and Toyotas have a general reputation for being reliable vehicles and thus tend to do better in the used-car market. So where does the Sienna rank in terms of retained value?
The 2011 Toyota Sienna earned an honorable mention in Edmunds 2011 Best Retained Value Awards. These awards are given to the vehicles that have the highest projected residual value after five years, expressed as a percentage of their True Market Value (TMV). The Sienna has a retained value of 48.3 percent. The 2011 Honda Odyssey beat out the Sienna, however, with a retained value of 49.8 percent. The 2011 Ford Transit Connect rounded out the top three, with a retained value of 39.3 percent.
Is retained value something you consider when you buy a car?
I just spent 10 days in our long-term Odyssey moving couches, rugs and all sorts of other stuff between houses. During that time I became intimately familiar with that van's dynamics. So when the car board came around yesterday I figured this was a good time to get a back-to-back comparison with the Sienna.
Easily the biggest difference when it comes to driving these two vans is what happens when a driver opens the throttle. The Sienna is — dare I say it — snappy. It's eager to move out and acceleration more readily follow its driver's right foot. By comparison, the Odyssey lags. It's less anxious to get moving and downshifts at speed demand a large throttle opening and plenty of waiting.
Now, certainly, the Toyota's 17-hp advantage might have something to do with this, but I think it's more subtle than that. After all, that's peak power which occurs at 6,200 rpm. The difference I'm talking about is most obvious pulling away from a stop or rolling into the throttle on the highway — both of which occur at lower engine speeds.
So it's torque, right?
Not so fast. The Honda actually makes more torque (250 lb-ft @ 4,800 rpm vs. 245 lb-ft @ 4,700 rpm). Without the benefit of dyno charts it's not possible to know the subtleties here, but I think we can say with certainty that they are small. Weight, too, isn't a big factor (4,460 lbs Sienna vs. 4,541 lbs Odyssey).
This difference, I'd argue, is down to two factors: Throttle and transmission calibration. And Toyota gets it right. Certainly people aren't buying minivans to be hot rods — and I do think the Honda handles better. But when it comes to putting your right foot down, Toyota wins.
A careful look at our most recent fuel economy update corresponds with this observation showing the Sienna lagging the Odyssey by a 1.1 mpg combined average (19.5 vs. 20.6). It's a price I'd gladly pay.
Perhaps you read last week's diatribe on why I prefer the Sienna's powertrain over the Odyssey's engine and transmission. Well, here's one more reason: The ability to pick the gear you want. As you can see above, it's only a tap away in the Sienna.
In the Odyssey (above) you can select L, which gives you some measure of control, but it's a far cry from the pick-your-own-gear setup in the Sienna. There's also the button on the side of the shifter (D4) to avoid overdrive gearing.
Also, lest this blog be free of controversy, I feel the need to point out that Toyota gets its shift logic wrong by using a push forward motion for upshifts. I'm not the only one who thinks so. Despite this, it's the superior setup.
A couple weeks back I upgraded the toilets in our new old house. This weekend I made sure I had the keys to our 2011 Toyota Sienna so I could load the commodes into the back and take them to the dump.
Mission accomplished. The Sienna's low liftover height made it easy for me to lift the pitiful porcelain in and out of the ass-end of the minivan.
Feel free to sumbit your own caption or smartass comment.
Yesterday I gave you a driver's tour of the Honda Odyssey. Today, I show you some of the features in the Toyota Sienna SE.
Video after the jump...
Those there are six-foot-long tables, and they fit completely in our longterm 2011 Toyota Sienna behind its second row of seating. The trick is that the second row is in its slid-forward position. Have you seen this? The butt-cushion flips up, the back tilts forward and then the whole thing just sort of smooshes up against the front seatback like it's preparing for a tandem skydive.
It's not quite Stow-n-Go levels of empty space, but this approach gets you 80% there, takes mere seconds to accomplish and doesn't force you to live with silly-flat seats. A pretty fair compromise, I'd say.
Also, minivans kick ass. Loving the low liftover height and wide cargo aperture. And you know how I dig sliding doors. If a car needs rear doors, they may as well be sliding doors.
The Sienna's expansive, flat load floor made it a breeze to roll two mountain bikes right in for an evening ride yesterday. No need to take off any wheels, lower seat posts or any of that nonsense.
A bungee cord to secure each bike and we were on our way. It's nice to get to the trailhead and then just pull the bikes out and you're set to ride. No reassembly required.
Of course the bikes and all your gear are totally safe inside the minivan if you happen to stop for some tacos post-ride, versus, say, a pickup truck or a car/SUV with a bike rack.
You've seen them, "Student of the Month," "Honor Roll," stickers your child brings home from school, anxious to apply them to your car's rear bumper.
Lately, I've noticed most minivans or SUVs displaying stickers on the rear hatch near the bottom of the glass, not on the painted bumper.
Where would you put yours?
The debate rages on in our house. Meanwhile, it's proudly displayed on our kitchen fridge.
This isn't the first time our 2011 Toyota Sienna SE got into a fight with a driveway...and lost. This time it happened at City Park in Corona, California, a place the Sienna and I had never been.
I was pulling into the 6th street parking lot, where I failed to see a steeper-than-usual driveway lurking in the deep shade as I rushed to complete my left turn before oncoming traffic bore down on me.
The noise was not pretty. Neither was the resulting scar on the front bumper.
Not only did it suffer the unsightly wound shown above, the rearmost front bumper clips near the front tire well popped loose as the ragged asphalt tried to bend the bumper under the car. Those popped back in easy enough with no ill effects, but you'll have to take my word for it as my camera battery chose that moment to die.
Our SE rides lower on its sport-tuned suspension than other Siennas (10 mm, I think). It also wears a deeper, more aggressively-styled front spoiler, particularly at the outside corners. Either factor worsens the Angle of Approach on its own; together they're a double-whammy.
And the SE's lowness and sporty bumper treatment are not restricted to the front...
The story is much the same at the rear, where the SE's Angle of Departure is also slightly less favorable than that of an LE or XLE. Here our Sienna's rear bumper also made friends with the asphalt, but the resulting scuff is much more benign, much harder to notice.
Yeah, this was a big one, and I should have seen it coming. But even if I had tiptoed through or angled across more, this driveway was steep enough that our SE would have grounded out anyway. The only surefire avoidance maneuver may have been to use a different park entrance from another street.
A normal LE or XLE Sienna might not have suffered the same fate, but it's hard to know — this was a steep driveway that appeared to date back to the 1930's, back when cars had zero front overhang.
As for the repair, we'll hold off fix the damage at the end in case we accumulate some more. This wasn't the first time and it may not be the last.
Acres and acres of dash, and just that tiny 3.5-inch display screen bobbing alone in the middle of it. The screen relays climate control information and various menu options for sliding door operation, etc. It's clear and colorful and decently high-resolution. In reverse, it offers a backup cam, which proves its most useful moment.
Otherwise, I can't stop staring at it and wondering "what's the point?"
How do people drive these things every day? After driving the Sienna around for about three days, I was searching for a Fiat 500 to jump into. Or at least a Civic. From the driver's seat, you know the Sienna is big. You know you can fit the wife, some kids, and some grandparents in for a couple of hours and everyone will have room to stretch out.
You only begin to understand just how big the Sienna and its ilk are when running to the bank to grab some cash, or making a quick-strike to Target, or threading a small strip-mall parking lot just to pick up some take-out. That's when the fatigue sets in. Just give me something small, with quick response and enough power.
Still love big cars, though. Love an old Chevy or Econoline van, or a Suburban with some years on it, powered by a big, thirsty V8. Big cars that are purpose-built for road trips, camping, weekends at the beach, and moving crap around. And minivans fit the bill. They're purpose-built to move people around. Handle weekend runs to hardware emporiums. But man, I don't want to drive one every day. Or rather, I don't want it as the only tool in the driveway.
Here's the part where readers either champion or debase wagons as the in-between solution. And while I like them, and would choose one over a sedan, they don't work for many people. This is when your mind starts building its dream garage of equal parts fantasy and practicality: a compact or midsize sedan for life's daily dramas, a van or SUV for moving around dogs and kids, and a 911 for flushing the blood.
Which leads to the next question: In this time of fashionable, and increasingly forced, austerity, just how many cars do we need?
I wish the driver seat was more comfortable. Last night, I was stuck in unusually bad traffic on my commute home. Traffic is always bad in L.A. but last night was exceptionally bad.
Sitting upright in the unsupportive seats for more than an hour was not fun. The seat felt flat and stiff without much side padding. And the back rest was not sufficiently supportive to keep me from squirming. I found myself wishing for heated seats to soothe my upper back. I can't imagine a long road trip in the driver seat of this vehicle.
Do any of you drive a Sienna?
Did I mention I love vans? My colleagues know this and mock me for it. At least my man Niebuhr was good enough to lay this awesome ode to 70's van-love on me. Forget all that people power and democracy movement nonsense; archiving gems like this is why Al Gore really built the Internet!
Vans and minivans are different species, as distant as Arabian thoroughbreds to donkeys. Vans have swiveling velour captain's chairs and four-speed column-mounted shifters. They have big oak cupholder racks on the front bulkhead, overhead stash boxes, and your buddy's botched airbrush on the side.
A proper van also has a back row that converts to a bunk. Now if you move (or remove) the seats around in the Sienna or Odyssey, you can definitely stretch out. But both have this lunar floor surface marked by hooks, bumps and depressions. Nothing a thick bedroll can't overcome, but for me, the Nissan Quest wins for its fold-flat third row that seamlessly extends the rear cargo floor and best captures that function and spirit of old American vans.
Stow n Go is a close second, especially since the new SnG seats are actually comfortable. But Quest still wins on being able to retain some cargo well. I'm willing to sacrifice the cabin volume for the convenience.
I'm a nostalgic kook, what can I say?
Still, you gotta respect the minivan for having heart. It's been dealt a lousy hand: front-wheel drive, more rows than a sports arena, and a lifetime of service to kids, dogs and groceries without ever knowing a V8 or even a Volkswagen flat-four. Sad.
Last night I jumped in the Sienna to come home and was less than a block from the office before I noticed the turn signals didn't work. Either of them. Hit the stalk either up or down and nothing happened. No blinking on the dash. No blinking outside.
It was dark so paranoia immediately hit. If the signals don't work, do the brake lights? I can testify that it's quite diffcult to observe brake lights from the driver's seat. Even at night. Eventually, I satisfied myself that the brake lights were functional. And then, just to see what would happen, I punched the emergency flasher button, which miraculously resurrected the signals. After that the stalk worked as well. And they worked this morning.
Weird. Unnerving.
Here's the message the Sienna gave me last week when I plugged my USB cable into its dash port and connected the other end to my iPhone to listen to a podcast. I do this every day, several times per day, in nearly every car I drive (100-mile round-trip commute, remember).
I switched to the aux cable back-up plan for the trip home and have since discovered that the problem must be my USB cable. But of course it's not that simple. I tried another USB cable when I got home and it worked fine. Still, the problem cable functions as iPod control in other cars and works to charge the phone when plugged into a 120-volt outlet.
For whatever reason, the Sienna just doesn't like it. Fortunately, there are two alternatives: Bluetooth streaming and the aux cable. Neither is an ideal work-around, but I'll manage.
This has happened to me probably four or five times in the 10 months we've had the Sienna. Periodically, one of the sliding doors will stop after partially opening or closing. This time it happened while I was running to catch a plane or I'd have made a video. Seems to happen to both doors.
This is where the door stopped. Took me about 20 seconds to work it closed after grabbing my bag. The problem is puzzling because the solution is slow. This time the doors were unresponsive to the key fob and the interior buttons. What's more, the Sienna's sliders aren't meant to be operated manually. Ever.
So when you pull on them — in either direction — you're working against the mechanism, which means you've got to be slow and careful in working the door into the fully open or fully closed position where the mechanism is again willing to take over.
I'm curious if any other Sienna owners are experiencing this problem. Given the fact that it's happened to me more than once and the fact that the doors clearly aren't broken, I'm wondering if it's something I'm doing. Could be. After all, I don't even know even know how to use the USB port.
Next time there will be video. I promise.
This isn't a feature unique to the Sienna, but it is a nice one. The sunglasses holder in the Sienna's roof-mounted command center doubles as a wide-angle mirror for viewing rear-seat occupants. For Sienna-driving soccer moms it's like having another set of eyes.
Here's what it looks like in the fully open position.
Last week I vowed to make a video the next time the Sienna's sliding doors stuck. It happened this morning at the car wash.
It's not clear at the beginning of the video that slider is already open (and stuck), but it is — ever so slightly. This is usually how the problem goes: I grab the handle expecting the door to slide open on its own and it opens a little bit and stops.
Here you can see the door failing to respond to the fob commands (beep, beep) and me slowly moving it manually a few inches at a time before resorting to the manual button (my mistake) to fully open and fully close the door.
In this instance the manual button solved the problem rather quickly and easily. Second or third-row passengers — or someone operating the other slider from the outside — would find this solution less convenient.
I previously mentioned this after my trip to Vegas in Feb, but now I have video!!
Anyway, I don't like vans, but if you have to drive one, our long-term 2011 Toyota Sienna SE is about as good as it gets. Our Sienna has good quality throughout. One glaring exception that screams "Cost Cutting!" is that pesky bugger of a whip antenna.
I haven't rolled in the Sienna in quite a while (as my Costco visits are now semi-annual.) But one thing that I did notice was that antenna mast. While cruising down the highway that staff would bend and flex and bow in my peripheral vision. And once something like this catches your eye, it's hard to ignore.
Not super annoying — but it did get my unwanted attention.
What do you think? Is the whip antenna a dealbreaker for you?
We were all set to run final track numbers on our workhorse Sienna, but nature had a different plan. While waiting it out, some of the gang decided the Sienna was the best place to chillax because of the comfy captain's chairs, iPod connection, and rear HVAC — and who could blame them?The track-side wait turned into a coffee-house wait until we learned we could return the next day for a do-over. The final long-term wrap-up story will post soon.
It's usually an interesting challenge to fit our test gear into a car each week before we head to the track. Chris Walton, our Chief Road Test Editor, is also known as Chief Tetris Master for his ability to logically squeeze all the gear into the trunk of a car that, upon first inspection, looked far too small.
My packing abilities generally fall somewhere between pathetic and hopeless, but even I could've easily fit all the gear into the gigantic expanse of space known as the Toyota Sienna. It wasn't even a challenge for us.
On another subject, Senior VE Engineer Al Austria found that the Sienna's sunshade provided protection for his delicate skin during slalom cone-shagging/lounging in the rear seat duties.
Much like its expansive cargo area, the Sienna also has a positively expansive dash. The downside to that flat, expansive dash is that the stereo system head unit is quite a stretch for me from the driver's seat. It's not the end of the world, but I can't actually reach the tuning knob, which is on the right side of the stereo, without leaning forward out of my driving position.
To make matters worse, the tuning knob has barely detectable detents, making it difficult to move around one station at a time as I scroll through the multitude of satellite radio channels trying to find a song I like.
Otherwise I've found very little to dislike about the Sienna so far, as it performs its intended role in life with ease. It's a comfy hauler with a surprisingly ballsy V6.
When my friend Blake and I, along with Blake's pal, Ari, pulled in for the start of the Mike Nosco Memorial charity bike ride in Newbury Park, California yesterday, the parking lot was dominated by pickups, SUVs, cars with bike racks and Sprinter vans.
And there we were, in a minivan. A couple guys came up to us while we were unloading, I think with the intent of making fun of us. I beat them to the punch, saying, "Yeah, that's right, three dudes in my wife's minivan." We all laughed, but then the guys noticed how easily three bikes and three people fit into the van.
I'm not gonna say our bungee cord method is pure genius...
But this is what we came up with at 5:30 in the morning, and it definitely kept the bikes stable and secure, despite some semi-aggressive cornering on my part.
And after 80 miles on our bicycles, with over 8100 feet of brutal climbing in the Santa Monica Mountains, the three of us were happy it was so easy to re-load all of our gear and bikes back into the van.
Minivan stigma be damned, these things just make a ton of sense. Fun to drive? Not really, but the Sienna is certainly no chore and is a very comfortable highway cruiser.
Utterly useful? That's an understatement.
Our Toyota Sienna minivan has reached the 20,000-mile mark. Unfortunately, that means it won't be long before the Sienna leaves the long-term fleet. And when that happens, it will be missed. But don't fret, we'll have a full wrap-up story once we're done with the blogging.
After a run of cars whose instrument panels display in red or blue — to say nothing of the Mustang's Hulk green, it was nice to be bathed in the pure white light of the Sienna's instruments last night and this morning. A lot of bad things have rightly been said about the ergo shortcomings of the console. The easy-on-the eyes instrument display shouldn't be counted among them.
I was greeted by this message when I fired up our 2011 Toyota Sienna this morning. Looks like the van is about due for routine maintenance. This 20,000-mile service interval should set us back $80-90, but instead it is free.
All maintenance on our Sienna for its first 2 years or 25,000 miles is covered under the Toyota Auto Care Prepaid Maintenance Program. We've paid nothing out of pocket to date, this visit will cost nothing and our next visit the same. Not too bad.
We'll call to schedule an appointment. Hopefully the dealer can resolve our issue with the sticking doors at the same time.
Everytime I get in our long-term Sienna SE, I think, "Who buys a minivan these days without a nav or entertainment system??" (Cough,cough, Scott Oldham, cough).
But such is the reality of choosing the "sport" trim.
But just when I was starting to think we were the only ones, there it was, directly in front of me in the Chik-fil-A drive-thru. An identical SE, same color, too.
Maybe the guys from Car and Driver?...
As I pulled into valet parking for the Hotel Bel-Air in the Toyota Sienna, it occurred to me that Vehicle Testing Manager Mike Schmidt might have been paying me back for some past transgression by arranging it so I would attend a press event at one of the most fashionable hotels in L.A. in a minivan.
Schmidt later denied it, of course. And the Hotel Bel-Air valet guys took it in stride and said that they get minivans all the time.
Maybe so, because the Hotel Bel-Air is the quintessential suburban hotel, so L.A. in its expression of a design ethic that’s all about sunshine, iced drinks and the sound of sprinklers on a summer morning. If you really know L.A., you head for the Hotel Bel-Air. All those flashy hotels on the Sunset Strip are strictly for hicks and Euro-trash.
And while a minivan might seem out of place at a hotel (especially at this one), it is of course equally suburban in its design ethic. In fact, the Sienna turns out to be better at what it does than the Hotel Bel-Air. It’s all about the difference between design and décor.
By a fluke I had temporary custody of one of Hotel Bel-Air’s newest rooms, built during the 2-year renovation that concluded with the re-opening of the hotel just months ago. It had all the usual suburban charm, the big windows and the flower pots on the verandah. But the spirit of suburban practicality had been compromised by a kind of triumph of Beverly Hills décor.
The room was overrun by electronics, but you had to watch a video on the widescreen to figure out a way to operate them all, as if the room were some kind of weird convertible top designed by Pininfarina. Light switches were scattered everywhere and each required one of three choices to operate it, a real adventure in the dark. The room’s temperature control was buried in one of the menus in the television interface. There were so many pillows on the couch that the only available sitting room was sized for a Chihuahua. The desk had an outlet for a laptop plug, only the telephone plug next to it took up so much space that it was unusable.
Every last room detail was an ergonomic disaster — every one. It was kind of funny, actually. There was not even a good place to sit down and put on your shoes. I have been in fancy hotels from Tokyo to Paris and never encountered anything quite like this.
As I departed in the humble Toyota Sienna, it occurred to me that while it’s unlikely you would ever catch a designer-caliber Chihuahua within a minivan, neither would you encounter any violations of fundamental ergonomic principles. Say what you will about the American minivan, but it has been refined into one of the most practical spaces you will ever experience, a little miracle of functionality where every last detail delights you with clever thoughtfulness.
Later at the auto show, Stewart Reed came over to say hello. Now the chairman of the transportation department at Art Center College of Design, Reed is known for his long successful career as a designer in Detroit and California, and indeed he held the pen that shaped the first concepts for the 1984 Dodge Caravan, the minivan that changed the world. He’s one of my favorite designers ever because he’s a total enthusiast for what a car does, not just the way it looks.
Right after Reed finished showing me pictures of the all-aluminum chassis of the 1939 Bugatti Type 64 that he was transforming into a display for the Mullin Automotive Museum, we started talking about minivans. He said, “From a design perspective, the minivan is one of the best vehicles on the road. Every bit of it is functional; there is not a square inch of it that is wasted. It is all about usability.”
I wanted to drag him away from the show in the Toyota Sienna and drive him back to the Hotel Bel-Air so he could give a little seminar about the difference between design and décor.
Remember when we told you that our 2011 Toyota Sienna was about due for service? We weren't pulling your leg. And we also weren't joking when we said it would be free, courtesy of the Toyota Care complimentary maintenance program.
Our visit to Toyota Santa Monica was quick and slick. We dropped the van off in the morning without an appointment. About 3 hours later our phone rang. The van was ready for pick up. The standard service included an oil change, tire rotation and the Toyota-specific "floor mat inspection."
Now back to the road.
Learning that the 2012 version of our Toyota Sienna has made Forbes' list of America's Dirtiest Vehicles is like finding out your mom and dad are running an illegal toxic dump in your garage.
It's no shocker to learn that a $1 million supercar like the Bugatti Veyron has air-dirtying tendencies. But minivans have a reputation for being big-hearted haulers of kids, dogs, bikes and home-improvement materials. And when someone tells your Sienna is leading a double life — that it is in effect choking children on playgrounds and killing polar bears? That's tough.
According to Forbes, the 2012 Sienna has a slighter better than average air-pollution score (6 out of 10, with 10 equaling no tailpipe emissions whatsoever). It contributes 6.11 metric tons CO2 annually to the environment. The EPA gives it score of 3 out of 10 for greenhouse gas emissions, with 10 being the cleanest. And that's how the Sienna wins the dubious distinction of being the dirtiest minivan in America, according to Forbes.
But there's a little more to the story.
I went to the Environmental Protection Agency's Green Vehicle Guide, one of the sources Forbes used to develop its list, and looked up 2011 and 2012 minivans to see how other vehicles in the class stack up environmentally. And it turns out they're all about the same: a little better than average on air pollution and average or worse when it comes to greenhouse gas emissions.
Bottom line: You can't get a super enviro-clean minivan. You have to shift to an SUV or wagon, and that's not always a good trade-off for hardcore minivan people.
That made me feel better about our Sienna. While it can rightly be called the dirtiest minivan in America, it's important to note that it's only a bit more so than its fellows.To really get clean, you have kiss the minivan goodbye.
Our long-term Sienna has 21,217 miles on its clock as it sits in my driveway today. That means it's nearing the end of its time with us. I'm going to drive it this weekend. Any last requests? Keep it reasonable and I'll report back on Monday.
Oh, and yes, that's our neighbor's 5-Series wagon, which is decidedly cooler than this minivan. And I like minivans.
I dropped the Sienna off at the dealer this morning to address the automatic doors which periodically don't fully open when activated by the interior or exterior handles. I was able to duplicate the problem at the dealer.
Here's how that conversation went:
Let me set the scene: The van is under the canopy and the service writer, Katie, is sitting in the driver's seat having already witnessed the door stuck in the open position. Now we've closed the door manually and are re-opening it in an effort to duplicate it sticking while she's watching. And, sure enough, after a few attempts, it sticks again. Here's what was said:
Katie: You opened it awfully fast.
Me: OK, but I can't be the only customer who opens the door fast.
Katie: It takes at least a second for the mechanism to work. Try opening it more slowly.
***I try — more slowly — a few times, and it works every time.***
Me: It's erratic and it doesn't do this every cycle, but it happens every time I drive the car.
Katie: We'll check it out, but I don't see or hear anything wrong with the mechanism.
And neither do I. But it doesn't open the door every time. And that's a problem. How rapidly the handle is pulled seems rather irrelevant.
The dealer is supposed to call back this afternoon. More to follow.
Yesterday I took the Sienna to the dealer to address an issue we've been having with its automatic doors for months. If you've been playing along at home you know there's a TSB for this issue and that we haven't had it addressed.
There's a reason for this.
Despite one commentor's continual and persistent demands, our van doesn't fall inside the VIN numbers Toyota says are affected by the problem. Still, we're suffering one of the two major symptoms of the problem — the doors don't fully open. The other symptom — a popping noise when the door sticks — isn't present.
Our service advisor, Katie, called me back this afternoon to tell me the techs went over the van and that the doors' are "operating normally." I pointed out that they were sticking and that this couldn't be considered normal operation. She retorted that if the handle is pulled too fast the doors will stick and that this is normal. I disagreed.
There was much back and forth.
I pointed out that the problem occurs occasionally while opening the doors from the inside so we couldn't pin it only on the speed of operating the exterior handles. I also noted that we are suffering one of the symptoms called out in the TSB and volunteered its number since she wasn't familiar with it. She wasn't interested since our van's VIN doesn't corrrespond to the affected vehicles.
We weren't getting anywhere.
Katie said we could leave the van until Tuesday when she'd have a foreman look it over. I agreed.
More to follow.
Please excuse the crappy picture, but our recent RTI ramp construction project provided me with an opportunity to explain why I am unlikely to trade in my 2004 Honda Odyssey for a 2011 Toyota Sienna.
It's the center console, or, in my car's case, the lack of one. Instead I have a fold down tea tray between the front seats. It holds drinks when I want and gets itself the heck out of the way when I need the space for something else. At some point since we've owned it my wife improvised a console storage compartment by sliding a wicker basket underneath for things like pens, cell phone power cords and CDs.
EDIT: I had previously painted the 2011 Honda Odyssey with the same Sienna brush, but it turns out that EX models and above have a removable front console that I hadn't previously played with. That's great, but, like the middle-middle seat, there's still a question of where to put it when you take it out. But at least you can take it out.
Getting back to my Odyssey for the moment, it can do things the Sienna cannot, such as hauling 10-foot hunks of steel tubing inside the cabin with the hatch closed. In addition to the RTI project, I have previously hauled 10-foot conduit when I rewired my garage, 10-foot 2x6 and 4x4 lumber when I built my daughter a loft, as well as other such projects I've since forgotten.
All of this goes down easily with no seat removal (my car has no middle-middle seat), no reconfiguration beyond flopping the third row into its well. The only real prep I have to do is lay out a couple furniture blankets to protect the carpet.
Sometimes the evolution of a vehicle takes it further away from the thing that made it a must-have in the first place. For me, at least, the addition of fixed center consoles in minivans is a step in the wrong direction.
As for the 2011 Honda Odyssey EX Touring, I'll try that removable console on for size next week when I go buy that 10-foot ladder I've got my eye on.
As the bell rings to start Round 3 of 2011 Toyota Sienna vs. Toyota Santa Monica, let's recap the first two rounds. Josh encountered a problem with the side doors not opening properly and dropped it off at the dealer.
The techs were unable to duplicate the problem so our advisor asked to keep it overnight so her shop foreman could take a look. That was the latest, until my phone rang. It was Toyota Santa Monica...
TSM: Your van is ready to pick up. We were unable to duplicate your concern.
Me: Josh was able to get the door to fail in front of you when he droped it off. Was that not enough for you to go on?
TSM: There isn't a problem. We tried it numerous times. I kept it overnight so my foreman could try it also. Nothing is failing.
Me: It did fail. You just weren't able to duplicate it. Is that what you're saying?
TSM: We tried numerous times. It is not failing. We also checked TSBs and your VIN does not fall into any TSB.
Me: I'm looking at a TSB now, which I believe Josh also mentioned to you. It is TSB 0044-11 and it addresses abnormal door operation.
TSM: Yes, but your VIN doesn't fall into that TSB.
Me: But there is a problem. And we are experiencing the same symptoms. Isn't that evidence enough to treat it along the lines of this TSB?
TSM: It doesn't apply to your VIN. Believe me, if there was something wrong we would fix it. We don't get paid unless we fix something.
Me: Believe me, we wouldn't waste our time dropping off the car and researching TSBs if there wasn't a problem. This is going nowhere. We are coming to get our van.
The day after this extended and frustrating conversation my phone rang again. I didn't recognize the number so I let it go to voicemail.
TSM: Hey Mike, this is Sam calling from Toyota Santa Monica. I believe you had come in and spoke to Katie. I got a word from Toyota for a TSB on the exact same problem so I wanted to get back to you and let you know what was going on. We actually went ahead and ordered a part for you already. It's all under warranty. Give me a call and I can fill you in on the details.
Two questions came to mind. First, who is Sam and why is he now involved? And second, do we take it back or go elsewhere?
* And for reference, the TSB cited:
T-SB-0044-11: 2011 Sienna Power Slide Door Abnormal Operation
Introduction
Some 2011 model year Sienna vehicles may exhibit an abnormal power slide door operation. This bulletin contains field fix information for the following conditions:
- Driver or passenger side power sliding door opens partially.
- Driver or passenger side power sliding door makes an abnormal pop noise when initially opening with the outside handle.
Please refer to the video below for an example of the pop noise.
Slide Door Pop Noise Example [The example video is on TIS, and is not publicly accessible.]
An updated power sliding door motor/ECU assembly is available. Please follow the steps outlined in this bulletin to address these conditions.
Production Change Information
This TSB applies to 2011 Sienna vehicles produced BEFORE the Production Change Effective VINs shown [in the TSB table].
1AR-FE 2WD
5TDKA3DC#BS007329
2GR-FE 2WD
5TDZK3DC#BS132584
5TDKK3DC#BS132584
5TDXK3DC#BS132584
5TDYK3DC#BS132584
2GR-FE 4WD
5TDJK3DC#BS021666
5TDDK3DC#BS021666
We put our 2011 Toyota Sienna to work over the weekend. Dan already told you about the ramp we built. Well, we had to put it in something. So we used the Sienna.
Last week NHTSA announced that Toyota is recalling certain 2011 and 2012 Toyota Sienna vehicles for failing to display the correct vehicle weight capacity stickers. We'll file this one into the good to know, but not too worried about it folder.
Vehicle Make / Model: Model Year(s):
TOYOTA / SIENNA 2011-2012
Manufacturer: TOYOTA MOTOR NORTH AMERICA, INC. Mfr's Report Date: NOV 30, 2011
NHTSA CAMPAIGN ID Number: 11V560000 NHTSA Action Number: N/A
Component: EQUIPMENT:OTHER:LABELS
Potential Number of Units Affected: 210,000
Summary:
TOYOTA IS RECALLING CERTAIN MODEL YEAR 2011 THROUGH 2012 SIENNA VEHICLES FOR FAILING TO COMPLY WITH THE REQUIREMENTS OF FEDERAL MOTOR VEHICLE SAFETY STANDARD NUMBER 110, "TIRE SELECTIONS AND RIMS." THESE VEHICLES DO NOT MEET THE REQUIREMENT FOR DISPLAYING THE CORRECT VEHICLE CAPACITY WEIGHT AS THE RATED LOAD FOR THE COMBINATION OF CARGO AND OCCUPANTS.
Consequence:
INCORRECT INFORMATION ON THE VEHICLE PLACARD MAY LEAD TO TIRE OVERLOADING AND POSSIBLY CAUSE TIRE FAILURE INCREASING THE RISK OF A CRASH.
Remedy:
TOYOTA WILL MAIL OUT A CORRECTED PLACARD TO CUSTOMERS ALONG WITH REVISED OWNER MANUAL INFORMATION. THIS SERVICE WILL BE PERFORMED FREE OF CHARGE. THE MANUFACTURER HAS NOT YET PROVIDED A REMEDY PLAN OR AN OWNER NOTIFICATION SCHEDULE. OWNERS MAY CONTACT TOYOTA AT 1-800-331-4331.
Notes:
OWNERS MAY ALSO CONTACT THE NATIONAL HIGHWAY TRAFFIC SAFETY ADMINISTRATION'S VEHICLE SAFETY HOTLINE AT 1-888-327-4236 (TTY 1-800-424-9153), OR GO TO HTTP://WWW.SAFERCAR.GOV
We've been sitting on five BFG Mud Terrain T/A tires for our 2012 Jeep Wrangler for a couple weeks, wainting for the wheels to arrive. Yesterday was the day, and I wasted no time hauling them over to Stokes Tire Pros to get them mounted.
The only long-term vehicles in our fleet capable of the job are the two minivans, the 2011 Toyota Sienna and the 2011 Honda Odyssey.
I chose the Toyota because the sliding nature of its middle row allowed me to load all five 33-inch tires and five boxed 17-by-8.5 wheels in back without removing any seats. The same job in the Odyssey would have required removal of some or all of the middle row.
It's the rail system that makes this easy. As the seats are slid forward past a certain point the seat cushion automatically pops up so the whole thing nestles up against the front seat, where they snap in place so they can't see-saw back and forth as you cycle on and off the gas.
So positioned, there's just enough room to squeeze everything in.
Project Jeep is one step closer to getting new shoes.
Normally, one doesn't get too excited about driving a minivan. But having just taken the keys to the Sienna, I have to say I'm pretty pleased with the assignment. Sure, it's fun to drive your kid to school in the NSX, or be amused by seeing how many grocery bags you can cram into the 911. But it's also nice to have a break from car guy-dom and just drive a vehicle that's meant for family use.
A Sienna for two weeks? Sure, I'm down with that.
Four-year-old girl. Eight-month-old boy. Wife. Two large suitcases. One medium suitcase. One small suitcase. One garment bag. Portable crib. Space heater. Two cardboard boxes full of Christmas presents. One large cooler. One medium cooler. About six tote/reusable grocery bags full of various things. Pack of diapers. Diaper bag. Two duffel bags. Laptop bag. Two backpacks. Two pillows. (And a partridge in a pear tree.)
This was all for a nine-day holiday trip to my in-law's house yesterday. (Yes, nine days. Kill me now.) It seemed like a polar expedition with all this stuff. Just give me some sledding dogs and I would have renamed our Sienna the Endurance.
The Sienna performed admirably. And having so much space available behind the second row meant I didn't have to pack above the beltline or on the roof. Still, something smaller would have meant less space for stuff. Or maybe I need more kids to force my wife to pack more lightly.
While you can never hope for a White Christmas in Southern California (except for maybe in the local mountains), one of the cool things about celebrating the holiday So Cal style is heading to the beach after opening presents. And hitting the waves if you're a surfer. It was a Christmas tradition in my family for years when we lived in LA, before moving way up the coast and too far from the beach to make it a quick trip.
I was nostalgically thinking about this Christmas ritual while doing a year-end organizing of digital pics and came across this one from last summer, when Dan Frio and I took the Sienna for a surf at Malibu.
I knew my friend's 9'5' Tyler fit in our long-term 2011 Honda Odyssey Touring, and the Sienna does have a factory rack with cross rails. But rather than bothering with strapping the boards to the top, my 10-foot beater longboard and Dan's 9'2" fit snugly down the center, with a few inches to spare.
No wonder you see so many minvans at surf spots along the California coast, especially belonging to the
old dudes
more mature surfers. But as grizzled surf journo Rob Gilley points out in "Ode to the Man Van," minivans are the most functional urban surf vehicles on the road — age and image be damned.
And if a Sienna is good enough for Mavericks charger and "Brawny Towel Man" Grant Washburn, it's good enough to transport me and Frio to two-foot Malibu.
As minivans go, I really do like our Sienna SE. If I were buying a new minivan, the Sienna is where I'd start first. A lot of it comes down to the way it drives. The two biggest draws for me are the V6 (it's strong and sounds good) and the suspension (it's been tuned to be very comfortable without being floaty). I like using the manual gear selector, too, as it expands the accessability of the V6's power.
The other thing drawing me to the Sienna is styling. I could very well be in the minority on this one, but I just like the way it looks compared to our Odyssey or Quest.
For the past few days I've been driving around with our Sienna's fender-mounted mast antenna removed. For reference, Al did a couple recent posts on it (here and here), but mostly it comes down to being a distraction and an obvious sign of cost-cutting.
Yet on my recent nighttime holiday trip with my family, I had to keep the audio system off (sleeping kids in the back). At that point I noticed that the antenna is also kind of noisy as it flaps about in the wind. It got to the point that I just unscrewed the antenna and left in the van. No AM/FM? No problem since I just listen to satellite radio and my iPod anyway.
Incidentally, I also noticed our antenna is bent at its threaded base. A commenter (otto1899) with a '11 Sienna in one of Al's posts noted that his antenna actually snapped off (with the threaded part still in the mount), and the Toyota dealer wanted $300 to replace the broken antenna. (Not covered under warranty, apparently.)
Well, we tried it. Lacks the sheer coolness of the Breakfast with the Raptor we had last spring.
Same fresh air. Same cool kid. Same freaked-out wife.
But the minivan in our face just wasn't as awesome.
We were performance testing a few minivans this week and started discussing sales numbers. Brent recently polled the child-tethered staff here on which van they would buy.
But which vans did the regular John/Joan Citizen buy in 2011? Data from Edmunds' crack Pricing and Analysis team shows that the Toyota Sienna was the 2011 minivan sales champ.
The Honda Odyssey comes in 3rd, but with only 2% of its sales coming from fleets (rental cars, business, and government sales.) The second place Dodge Caravan is the polar opposite,with an astounding 63% of its sales to fleets.
Amazingly, the VW Routan outsold the new Nissan Quest! (although the Quest was introduced in Feb for 11 months of sales figures — still...)
There was a warm reception for our long-term 2011 Toyota Sienna to Carmax when I took it there on Friday. Edmunds trade-in TMV had estimated that we would get about $22,660 for our Sienna, which had just over 23,200 miles on the odometer. Carmax had been pretty close to our trade-in TMV price recently and since it only gives price quotes in $500 increments, I guessed the Carmax offer would be $22,500.
"We like to see Toyotas come in," said the representative when I arrived. "They're very popular."
Minivans have great resale value. Families who can't pay for them new — or are thrifty and don't want to pay the new-car premium — will wait a few years for the price to drop. The Carmax rep added that customers flock to the Siennas or Honda Odysseys on the lot. This was a good sign.
The price quote surpassed our expectations. Carmax offered us $25,000. This was $2,340 more than the trade-in TMV and even $410 more than private-party TMV. We paid $32,243 for the Sienna (plus tax and title). The MSRP was $34,684. We thought about what to do over the long weekend and decided to take the offer.
Some readers have asked us how we are able to get great prices from Carmax. But the truth is we don't have any inside sources or special arrangements. The people there treat us like any other customer. The offers are competitive because we bring in year-old cars with a number of options on them. It also doesn’t hurt that used-car prices are very high right now.
We don't always get the best price from Carmax, but this time it was an offer we couldn’t refuse.
Final Odometer reading: 23,210
Some of you have wondered what happens to the long term cars we sell to Carmax. I spotted our 2011 Toyota Sienna SE on Carmax's Web site today. We sold it to them recently for $25,000. Carmax is asking $28,998, a mark-up of about $4,000 (16 percent). For reference, the dealer retail TMV is $26,283. The MSRP on a 2012 Sienna SE with the same options is about $35,100.
Would you buy our Sienna for $29K?
Wrap-Up
Even the most masculine of us can profess our love for the minivan. Sure, they don't have rear-wheel drive and they can't do burnouts, or at least not that easily. But the fact is, minivans do a better job of carrying people and stuff than any crossover, sport-utility or truck. So when you need stuff done, they become very cool.
When Toyota announced the significantly redesigned 2011 Toyota Sienna, we knew it needed to be in our fleet. We know, kinda pathetic, but this 2011 Sienna threatened to knock the mighty Honda Odyssey from the top of the heap. Our comparison of the 2011 Toyota Sienna versus the 2010 Odyssey ended with the Sienna ahead on points.
We preferred the Sienna SE, which is a couple of tiers up from the base model. A 265-horsepower 3.5-liter V6 powers the sportier SE. Beneath it turn 19-inch all-season Michelins. Its suspension and steering are tuned for a more sporting feel compared to the other trims. Inside the cabin there's a unique gauge cluster and leatherette seat fabric that further distinguishes the SE from other Siennas. The optional 40/20/40 second-row seat was a must-have for eight-passenger seating. Additional comfort items such as a power liftgate, roof rails, window shades and a tow package came on our Sienna.
We initiated a search at our local dealerships and found several that meet our criteria. We offered $500 over invoice on our first choice and the dealer accepted. Done deal: It wasn't going to get much better than that. Out came a check for $32,243 and into our hand went the keys. At that point we owned a Sienna, and within months Honda was scheduled to deliver a long-term 2011 Odyssey to our offices. We looked forward to 12 months and 20,000 miles of direct comparison.
Let the Work Begin
At first, it was strictly utilitarian. Requests to drive the Sienna poured in before it had even returned from the dealer. It had been some time since our last long-term minivan test, and during that time folks around here accumulated lots of stuff. You name it and somebody asked, "Can I borrow the Sienna to move my treadmill... pixie-party supplies... bed... old toilets... bicycles... 4-by-8-inch sheets of plywood?"
Senior Editor Josh Jacquot compared our Sienna to the Odyssey: "Easily the biggest difference when it comes to driving these two vans is what happens when a driver opens the throttle. The Sienna is, dare I say it, snappy. By comparison, the Odyssey lags." We found the Sienna's sport shift awkward, however. The default for "manual" sport mode was 4th gear. One editor shared his frustration with this logic. "Oftentimes, 4th was too much, and I had to manually upshift almost immediately to get to 5th gear. Essentially, I was forced to shift 6-4-5, otherwise known as two steps forward, one step back."
Inside the cabin we encountered some limitations of our 2011 Toyota Sienna. Senior Editor Erin Riches wrote, "I'm going to go out on a limb and wager this will be the No. 1 complaint.... The center stack is wide and not angled toward the driver. As such, you have to reach into the Eastern time zone to tune a radio station." She was right. At one point it was said "the interior is the Camaro steering wheel of the minivan world." But positives outweighed the negatives. It had a power rear liftgate which was appreciated by all. It offered all of the cargo area we needed. It hauled eight passengers. And its 40/20/40 second-row seats could be removed in two pieces.
On the Open Road
The Sienna's appeal earned the Toyota top honors when it came time to pick a vacation vehicle. Every winter Director of Vehicle Testing Dan Edmunds drives his family up the coast to Oregon, and only dedicated people movers make the cut. Edmunds reflected on his choice: "I have a problem with Toyota's SE option strategy. Who says you don't want navigation, seat heaters or video support just because you prefer the SE's sportier look, bigger tires and firmer suspension? But if one moves 'up' to the trim grades that offer these features, the SE goodies are lost. That's a problem for me."
Edmunds continued, "As for the drive itself, the SE's firmer suspension feels just about right. There's no float, no wallow and the steering is nicely weighted around center. It tracks straight and true, and no one remembers feeling the least bit woozy at any point during the trip.... The brakes, on the other hand, frankly suck. Sure, they stop in a reasonable distance at the track and they're quiet just about everywhere. But in the real world the feel is all wrong. Normal stops make them seem weak because you have to press harder than expected to get the job done."
Upon its return from the great Northwest, our Sienna was due for its first scheduled maintenance.
Toyota Care Maintenance Program
Our first service at 5,000 miles was somewhat confusing. All 2011 Toyotas qualified for Toyota Care, a free maintenance program spanning the first two years or 25,000 miles. But we were charged for this first oil change. A glitch linked to the purchase date of our Sienna required manual entry of the VIN into Toyota's database. Somebody was out sick that week. Blah, blah. Eventually things worked out. We were reimbursed for our troubles and buttered up with a free pair of lift tickets at a local skiing hot spot. Not bad.
Subsequent service visits at 10-, 15- and 20,000 miles were also free. But our dealership experience stretched beyond routine maintenance. Toyota replaced a stop lamp switch per an open recall campaign during one visit and a bent radio antenna during another. These were our only repairs, until the rear sliding doors began sticking. Toyota Santa Monica gave us a hard time about this one. We reported the issue, which seemingly fit into an open TSB. The dealer would not honor our claim because the VIN of our vehicle "did not fall into the range stated in the TSB." After two visits to the dealer (one overnight) and persistence on our part, Toyota ultimately expanded the TSB to cover our vehicle.
A year with the 2011 Toyota Sienna taught us a lesson about form over function. Low-profile rocker panels and bumpers look attractive. They are sporty. But daily driving sends a surprising number of tall obstacles their way, including high curbs, steep driveways and concrete parking stall stops. We hit them all. Nothing was intentional, of course, but the low overhangs of the Sienna require special consideration. A visit to the body shop mid-test returned it to nearly new condition for about $1,000. Unfortunately the blemish-free look didn't last for us, as the nicks and scrapes returned in time.
The Utility Factor
One of the most controversial aspects of any new minivan is its seating configuration, or more specifically, how the seats can be rearranged to accommodate various combinations of passengers and cargo. The Sienna can seat eight if you use the removable middle seat in the second row. Most editors found it easy to use, although rarely did anyone actually use it as a seat given its narrow dimensions.
When it comes to removing the seats, the 2011 Toyota Sienna is slightly easier than the Odyssey. As Dan Edmunds pointed out, it's mainly because of the design of the seat latches, which he found easier to release even though the seats themselves are slightly heavier.
Once the second-row seats are out, getting a completely flat load floor is as simple as folding the third row, which every author found simple. At that point, the Sienna is a cargo-hauling monster. From moving duty to track days to buying treadmills, the Sienna swallowed just about everything imaginable.
Off to the Auction Block
After 13 months and 23,000 miles, our test of the 2011 Toyota Sienna was complete. We held onto it a little longer than usual for the purpose of side-by-side comparison with our long-term Honda Odyssey and Nissan Quest.
Demand for the Sienna was considerable when it came time to sell. Edmunds' TMV ® Calculator valued the van at $24,590 based on a private-party sale. So when CarMax offered us $25,000 for the Toyota, we agreed. This was a strong price. It equated to just 22 percent depreciation. Historically, anything below 25 percent is considered good.
On its own, the Sienna is a smart buy. Resale value is commendable. Free scheduled maintenance is hard to beat. And at the time of this review it sat atop the minivan sales reports, ahead of the Dodge Grand Caravan and Odyssey. We observed an average of 19.6 mpg over 23,000 miles. This was decent, ranking it between our 20,000-mile Odyssey (20.8 mpg) and 3,000-mile Quest (19.2 mpg).
The Sienna was not without its drawbacks. A trade-off for cosmetic superiority of the SE version over its competitors was a low-hanging body kit. The low profile created issues even for the most careful of drivers and required a body repair budget. We also encountered three separate warranty replacement items during our test. This was not excessive, but it deserves some consideration as the van ages.
Would we recommend the 2011 Toyota Sienna to a friend? Yes. At the time of our test it ranked among the top two in most categories that matter to minivan buyers. This is one of the better bargains on the market right now.
| Total Body Repair Costs: | $998.52 |
| Total Routine Maintenance Costs (over 13 months): | None |
| Additional Maintenance Costs: | None |
| Warranty Repairs: | Stop lamp switch, sliding door motor, bent radio antenna |
| Non-Warranty Repairs: | None |
| Scheduled Dealer Visits: | 4 |
| Unscheduled Dealer Visits: | 2 |
| Days Out of Service: | 7 |
| Breakdowns Stranding Driver: | None |
| Best Fuel Economy: | 26.3 mpg |
| Worst Fuel Economy: | 13.2 mpg |
| Average Fuel Economy: | 19.6 mpg |
| True Market Value at service end (private party): | $24,590 |
| What it sold for: | $25,000 |
| Depreciation (dollars): | $7,243 |
| Depreciation (% of original paid price): | 22% |
| Final Odometer Reading: | 23,210 |
Edmunds purchased this vehicle for the purposes of evaluation.