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Re: Is now the time to buy? [bob104]
by nw_priusguy on Thu Dec 06 21:25:50 PST 2007
Hi Bob, This is actually a really tough question in my opinion. I live in mid OR and in all honesty, gas is at the $3.00 mark. Shen we were in CA a few weeks back, it was $3.30 and about $3.50 up in Tahoe. With the economy not doing so well, it being the end of the year, car lots in the area overflowing with excess stock (cars), dealerships needing to hit end of month/year quotas, this is definitely a prime time to buy. I looked very closely at the hybrid Civic and Prius (both '08 models). The '08 Civic hybrid still has the full federal tax break for about 3 more weeks, then they begin to phase it out progressively. Right now, it's about $2,400, assuming you're not hit with AMT and qualify for the full refund. Additionally, Oregon offers a state tax break of about $1500 for either the Civic or Prius, so, you're talking about an almost $4k tax break if purchased soon. In all honesty, I was very close to buying the civic, did the research, etc. It's basically like buying a fully loaded LX, but, instead, for the same price you get the hybrid engine/system. If it comes down to simply an economic decision, I'm not sure how you would beat the Civic at this point with the tax rebates in OR and full federal. CNN also just printed a nice article detailing it's analysis of how the hybrids stack up. Note, that the write up didn't take into account potential state tax credits. This article also does its best to compare apples to apples. It's probably not fair to compare the Prius to anything other than a non-hybrid that is about the same size/class. CNN suggests this equivalent would be the non-hybrid Camry for the Prius because it is bigger than the hybrid Civic or something like a Ford Focus. http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2007/autos/0711/gallery.hybrids_that_pay/index.ht- - ml I was getting dealer quotes for the hybrid civic (without nav) for high 21s. Assuming I would get the nearly 4k in write offs, that's about 17k for a very nice hybrid w/outstanding manufacturer reputation. Having said all that, I still went with the Prius. With package #2, you can find them in the low to mid 22k range out here and I still receive a $1,500 rebate from my state. So, why a Prius? First of all, I do more in-city driving, so, this specific type of driving evidently favors the Prius as it runs more often on battery up to about 30mph and gets nearly 10mph better gas mileage than the Civic in comparable contexts. #2, I just couldn't get over the back seats of the Civic not folding down. I guess the batteries are placed in such a way that they simply don't allow you to do this. Ouch! Having several more cubic feet of space in the back seat area AND in the hatchback (yes, it's a hatchback, not a trunk) was huge for us. We currently have a Jeep with a V8 and run about 14mph to the gallon. When I ran the numbers, I actually chose the Prius simply for economic reasons and found the carbon emission benefit an added plus. The CNN article I mentioned suggests it would take about 4.2 years or so to pay for the premium placed on the hybrid cost. However, that does NOT take into account state tax rebates, assumes the driver puts 15k on his/her car (the average is probably higher for most of us on the west coast) and that the price of gas stays in a certain range, so, it might likely be more in the 2-3 year range for us to hit the magic equivalency "requirement". Since this is a Toyota, we honestly assume we'll have this car for 10-15 years. With that in mind, it's hard for me to imagine why everyone doesn't own a Prius as their main in-city/commuter car. In all honesty, I'm not surprised it's the car of choice in the Bay Area and in our area of OR; it makes financial and environmental sense for most, especially if the price of gas does move back up near $4.00 a gallon and stays there for awhile. When that happens again, you better hope you have your name on a waiting list :)
Re: CA's DMV fees [ck90211]
by cruising7388 on Tue Sep 12 14:48:49 PDT 2006
Here is a tabulation for a California purchase of Package 6: Cash Price 27768.00 Document Prep 45.00 Smog Fee -0- Sales Tax 2155.21 (Doc Fee is taxable!) License & Reg 231.00 CA Tire Fee 8.75 California sales tax is a little higher than the national average. It isn't uniform throughout the state. The basic rate is 7 1/4% but different counties piggyback sales tax increments on the basic rate. The sales tax percentage you will incur does not depend on where the vehicle is purchased. It's determined by the county and city in which it is registered. The registration fees which used to be horrendous were reduced when Governor Schwarznegger delivered on an election campaign promise to rescind the hiked registration fees implemented by Grey Davis. The California Board of Equalization does have a policy regarding trade in values that is infuriating. For example, in the case of the above tabulation, a vehicle was traded in at the value of $7800.00. In some states, this amount is subtracted from the sales price of the new vehicle, reducing the amount of sales tax levied. In this case, it represents a tax increment of $604.50 which would not be paid in a state that permits the new vehicle sales price to be offset by any trade in value. There is no practical way of avoiding this without going through the convoluted process of having the car delivered to an adjacent state and developing a record of operating the vehicle for one year or more outside the state. Of course, the vehicle will have to be registered in some state for that period and the state of choice for this region is Oregon which has a uniquely low vehicle registration fee. Oregon used to be pretty lax with respect to this process but as of late they have started to require some proof of residence in the state. In any event, because it involves a lot of work and hassle, it really isn't cost effective for the sales tax incurred with a Prius. Now if we were talking about a 300,000.00 luxury motor home, the equation would be somewhat different. There isn't an awful lot of difference between the 2006 and 2007 packages. The base MSRP is fractionally cheaper than 2006, but for 2007, the VSC option is now a required option in every package but No. 1. Also I think for 2007, the Sirius/XM radio function has been included. Other than larger wheels, I don't recall the additional features the touring model offers. I'm not sure that the bigger wheels really accomplishes much particularly if it results in a tire size that is significantly more expensive to renew. Which packages will be sold in California? I sure wish I had a rabbi somewhere high up in the Toyota food chain that could provide a heads up in this regard. I think it's safe to assume that the touring model(s) will be offered in CA, but I'm not sure that for marketing purposes, CA is just one market. It may break down into sub-markets with a different distribution profile for each one. Frankly, I think it sucks that a customer can't purchase any package of their choice from any dealer in the country, but the demand for this class of vehicle is so powerful that they can call the shots even though it looks wrong from our end. I'm reminded of an exchange I had almost a half century ago with the owner of a business for which I was a purchasing agent. I was cogently explaining why a particular purchasing policy he implemented was costing us money, and he replied: "Son, last year I made over a million dollars and now you're telling me I did it the wrong way...." And that was the end of that conversation.
Re: Prius Dealers in Portland [aviva2]
by gagrice on Wed Jul 19 06:25:07 PDT 2006
Maybe its worth my while to visit Portland Having bought several cars and trucks in Portland over the years I agree it is worth the flight up to buy. Plus it is a beautiful city to visit. The drive back if you take the coastal highways is a wonderful vacation. When you are pricing here on Edmund's put in zip code 97027 and you will get a list of Portland dealers to contact. Oregon does not charge any out of state buyers tax. They just give you the MCO and you take care of the paper work at home.
2005 Matrix XR -- Portland, OR
by nwjeffor on Thu Aug 18 18:10:43 PDT 2005
I sincerely thank you for all your posts and such. I can't say enough good things about you and about this web site. It was a fabulous help in this car buying process. We just picked up a 2005 Matrix XR with FE, BE, CK, EV, AB, QP, and Z1 through the internet department at Gresham Toyota. We paid $18,704 OTD (about $150 less than TMV from edmunds.com), including TT&L (no sales tax in Oregon!!) It seems that Toyota only includes Side and Curtain airbags with the QP (Extra Value Package #2), so we also got the moonroof ... it's a nice extra in a great car. We could have done better if there had been any rebates in our area, but I'm happy with the deal we got. We could not find the car locally in the color we wanted, but our salesperson worked hard to find an "A Trade" for us. That's an electronic swap in inventory (sometimes before the car is even built) that won't cost you the $250 or so "finder's fee," which is ridiculous. The car drives great and we just love it. No regrets here, at all, with our Matrix. We did, however, find some dealers that were not honoring the $800 MSRP discount on the Extra Value Package #2. One salesman in Salem told me flat out that I was lying to him about it, so I just went elsewhere. I knew I'd be walking out when he said, "There is no way you know what we paid for this car!" I responded that it's public information on the web, then left. We found much better deals in the big city (Portland) than we did in the surrounding smaller towns with Toyota dealerships. The bottom line is don't go into that dealership without your TMV report and your own financing. We secured financing through Capitol One/Costco at a great interest rate. They told me that Toyota Financial couldn't beat it until the Finance Director at the dealership decided last minute to beat it by 0.25%. So, get the best deal on financing you can on your own and don't talk financing unless they show you a better deal.
Re: 4x4 Dbl Cab Offroad Package [wooddorker]
by ss580 on Thu May 12 06:43:53 PDT 2005
I got quotes on a 2005 Access Cab from the Internet and from a Costco authorized dealer. The prices were wthin a $100.00 of each other. They would have had to order my truck since I don't fit the demographics of my area. I was going to purchase from the Internet dealer because they were closer to home, but cancelled my order to the paint problems Toyota is having and they low-balled me on my trade-in. I'm waiting for 2006, then I will go Internet shopping.
Re: DCab vs. Acab [danh1]
by ss580 on Thu Feb 24 12:13:02 PST 2005
I have received a quote from Vancouver, WA through Costco and a quote from a Portland dealer over the internet. There were comparible on an Access Cab. The quotes were in the middle of Invoice and MSRP.

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