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Re: On the Bank Acquisition fee - A new item to negotiate [eltuti2002]
by dom6183 on Sun Jan 04 12:55:01 PST 2009
Re: acquisition fees. That was a very enlightening article! I wonder if over time this item might become negotiable, but from my past four leases in the past 6 years (for me and others in my household), in no case did I try to press on that figure. It may be worth pushing on it next time, even if rebuffed, it can be one item to "concede" in a negotiation (and ask for something else in return, a common negotiation tactic any of us can use to advantage). Re: posting at 5AM - thanks, but don't be too impressed!I actually finished typing just before 8am ET, the system clocks on this board are evidently set on Pacific Time :) One last thought for those who enjoy negotiating (I do, in general, though I burn out after a few days on these deals). I said this in my earlier post today: BEWARE of the sales tax calculation for an auto lease. In receiving multiple counter-offers, the numbers were all over the place - varied by as much as $300. Research and understand how your state calculates sales tax for leases. New Jersey has two options, believe it or not - because their law is written for any type of long-term lease (>12 months), such as for capital equipment, like machinery, computers, etc. In New Jersey, for the more favorable option, you have to pay 7% upfront on the sum of all the lease payments, PLUS 7% on the acquisition fee! This last item was added in 2006 law. The less favorable option is to pay 7% on the ENTIRE purchase price - why anyone would do that is beyond me. If you don't know how to calculate the tax, you could easily get taken for a few hundred dollars, because the sales tax figure does NOT usually show up on your finance paperwork - the dealer can calculate it separately and turn it in to the state quarterly. So a dealer can give you any figure they want, and if you don't know any better, or don't question how it was calculated, they can overcharge you and you would never know it! I saw this disparity on a Honda lease I did in Aug08, saw it this week from Acura, and I recall seeing it on a BMW lease I did in 2006. Also, for those of you in NJ, for certain vehicles (>$38K and/or less than 19mpg average of city/higway EPA numbers), you have to pay a luxury tax of .004 of the sales price (total sales price, not the sum of payments). No choice, just be aware of how it is calculated. The only other variable I always see in a deal are "documentation fees" - I had these ranging from $125 to as much as $295. I think it's okay to pay the dealer for their time and effort to register the car and get the tags, etc (because they usually have to send someone to the state office to get the tags), but it is potentially a negotiable item - to me, anything more than $200 would be ridiculous, but you can have your own threshold; it simply pays to be aware of this and push back if you think you're getting gouged. It's soooo hard to compare lease deals from state to state, since the costs and fees vary so much. The only figure that people should share here is the sell price, the residual %, the money factor, and maybe if they're putting anything down as capital cost reduction. Putting other costs into the monthly payment equation makes one deal almost indecipherable from any other deal.
Re: dealer incentive for 09 MDX [eltuti2002]
by dom6183 on Sun Jan 04 04:55:44 PST 2009
Sharing my decision and information in the form of a sequential story. I've been reading and posting here for around a week while working toward a decision and action. Looking to get into a new lease to replace my wife's BMW 3-series lease that is up in two weeks. Once she finally decided on the Acura MDX, I got underway in earnest. These boards, when people post clear information, are very helpful. We live in southern NJ, between Philly and Atlantic City. This past week we visited two local dealers within 25 miles of our home, test drove for my wife, and I came prepared with a written offer for each for a 36-mo lease for a base MDX. She didn't care about the Tech Package, the base unit was plenty loaded for her. Advice for anyone leasing: always start with the "sell price" - it's the most negotiable element (with warning: watch how the dealer calculates sales tax - search the Internet for your state's method, and don't let them get too crazy on doc fees). The residual rate (%) and money factor are set by the leasing company (in this case, American Honda Finance Co - AHFC). After reading posts on this board, and paying the $14 to get the Consumer Reports price service (from their web site), I went in with a purchase offer of $34,569, or $214 below the CR bottom line of $34,782, which included a lease incentive of $2,000 and took off the dealer holdback of $1,230. Turns out getting to this "bottom line" was not as simple as I hoped. These first two dealers counteroffered with 36,581 and 36,382. I thanked them and left, saying I was going to keep searching for a dealer who would get to within $500 of the CR bottom line. I got home and worked the Internet sales staff of eight more dealers (this made 10 total) - three in Philly, one in DE, and four more in NJ, all the way north to DCH in Verona. I made clear my offer and intent to move this weekend. All replied except DCH - many of you are buying there, and maybe they're too busy to respond! Without exception, they all replied I was off on two counts: (a) the lease incentive was $1,500 and not $2,000 as I was calculating, and (b) most of them were not willing to negotiate much into the $1,230 holdback figure. In fact, one politely chided me that the holdback was the only thing keeping the dealership alive and in business! So I worked the phones and internet again, increasing my offer. I also had to decide, do I just wait out the current offer that ends on 1/5/09 and see what 1/6/09 holds? I went back on this board to Aug08 postings to see how previous AHFC offers had changed in the last 5-6 months. The "summer sale" in effect in August had 2008 leases at .00245 MF (it is now .00178 much better) at .54 residual (now is .53) and as much as $2,500 cash incentive. That was end of model year. During the fall months all of these figures moved around, some better, some worse. The money factor went as high as .0027, residuals never higher than .54, and sometimes there was $0 cash incentive. Cranking those ups and downs into my spreadsheet, and seeing the resulting payment, things were all over the map. None of us knows for sure what will happen after 1/5/09, and looking at past trends, I decided that today's offers were pretty darn good (.53, .00178, $1,500), and even if they got better, I would not develop buyer's regret. So I decided to keep pushing ahead for a deal before the current offers expired on 1/5. It became apparent to me that each dealer differs in how much of that $1,230 holdback they were willing to sacrifice to make a deal. Still working the phones, the best deal I received was $300 into that holdback. The CR dealer invoice for the base MDX is $38,012. Dealer gets the $1,500 cash incentive from Acura corporate on a lease, reducing that to $36,512. Several counteroffers I received were higher than that figure. I got the dealer closest to my home to send me an offer via email of $36,261. I had different dealer suggest over the phone that he could go down to $36,000 but needed $200-400 to get the interior color my wife preferred (she wanted the taupe). I had decided in my mind it was worth $200 or so to get her the preferred color interior; those are the kind of emotional decisions that remove flexibility and lock you in! This dealer closest to me had that color combination. Now, some folks here on these boards got DCH and maybe another Northern NJ dealer to do a lease deal with a sell price under $35,000. That is impressive! As I mentioned, I contacted DCH via email, but didn't get a reply. I could have phone called, but I will admit I was not fond of the idea of traveling 100 miles to them. My choice, it may have cost me, but also, as I read in a post by "goneflyn", that lease deal had a different residual, so I couldn't help but wonder that maybe it was not AHFC? I didn't ask goneflyn. Maybe he can reply here to this post. So yesterday afternoon I emailed that dealer my offer sheet of purchase at $36,213, also separately citing all the other costs like taxes, state tire fee, tags, registration, etc, that I would pay upfront and out of pocket. I had $0 cap cost reduction, which I prefer to do for leasing. We settled on their offer of $36,261 as they included the dealer wheel locks and rubber mat package, which I could have told them "take it out!" but I decided was worth $48 to me. With the residual of .53 and MF of .00178, the 36 month regular payment came in at $499. All the other costs came in at a little over $3,000 - 595 acq fee, 1299 state sales tax, 336 registration and tags, 499 first payment, 7.50 state tire fee, 195 dealer doc fees, 145 state of NJ LFIS luxury tax. We spent a couple of hours there while the vehicle was prepped and we did the paperwork, and we drove home after dinner last night. The deal is done, I am mentally exhausted, and I hope this story is useful to someone else. Best wishes, and I'll be back on these boards when my next purchase or lease gets underway!
Re: Base MDX - Purchase Price and Luxury Tax [goneflyn]
by dom6183 on Fri Jan 02 15:10:16 PST 2009
Gonelfyn, Thanks, I was using your figures and hoping that I could get a closer dealer to match it. I guess I'll try DCH Acura, though it's 100 miles from home. I also found the answer to the luxury tax question - it's a New Jersey thing (we have lots of those 'things' about taxes in NJ, don' we?). It's a tax on vehicles with an average EPA mileage estimate less than 19 (eg, 15 city + 20 highway = 17.5 average). The tax is 0.004 of the selling price. See NJ DMV web site at http://www.state.nj.us/mvc/Vehicle/luxurytaxsurcharge.htm
NJ LFIS charge
by hulihutu on Sat Nov 17 11:58:20 PST 2007
Hi, could some one help me on the New Jersey Luxury & Fuel Inefficient Vehicle Surcharge (LFIS)? I am in NJ and is going to purchase an 08' MDX for about $41,000. Besides the 7% sales tax, NJ has a 0.4% LFIS surcharge on the new sale or lease of vehicles priced $45,000 or greater or on vehicles having an EPA rating of less than 19 miles per gallon. MDX has an EPA ratings of 15/20. Which EPA rating (city 15 or highway 20) should be used to determine the LFIS? Thx.

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