Chat Transcript

<Edmunds_Moderator> Welcome to our Special Event Chat with features editor, Miles Cook! He's here to chat with you about his opinions of the best Muscle Car era, and why. Share your opinions with him, when were the best 'muscle cars' made? Submit as many questions/comments as you want and he'll answer all that he can in the next hour. We look forward to your discussion about the 'baddest' muscle cars invented! Enjoy the chat!

<Edmunds_Moderator> Miles thanks so much for being here! We are looking forward to hearing all about what you think about the best 'Muscle Car' era! Before we start with our questions and comments though, your bio talks how you dreamt of writing about cars all through your college days. What inspired this passion?

<Miles_Cook> I've been a car nut for most of my life.

<Miles_Cook> I started reading car magazine when I was 10 including Motor Trend, Car and Driver, Hot Rod, Car Craft.

<Miles_Cook> In college, I figured writing would be a good way to be involved with cars, seeing as I wasn't going to be a racing driver or a mechanic.

<Miles_Cook> I really enjoy the driving, driving all the different cars on the market today, which I've had the chance to do at Edmunds, much like the writers for the magazines I mentioned.

<Miles_Cook> In college I kept reading the magazines, when I had the chance to work at SEMA, an aftermarket trade association, I worked on a trade magazine, SEMA news, a business to business trade magazine.

<Miles_Cook> SEMA was a great place to start, but I wanted to be more involved with the cars, so when the chance came to work at Turbo magazine, I jumped at that.

<Miles_Cook> In the early days of Turbo, there were stories on a lot of German cars, Mustang 5.0s and turbo Buicks.

<Miles_Cook> I worked at Turbo for a year, then I worked at Car Craft, which was when I was in my mid-20s' I would have worked there for nothing!

<Miles_Cook> I worked there for five years, it was a great place to be, but there were limitations in that there was very little new-car editorial

<Miles_Cook> Not like what you see at Edmunds, which already has hundreds of road tests posted over the last 4-5 years.

<Miles_Cook> For example the M5 article I wrote for Edmunds, which just posted this evening to the homepage. I felt honored to be involved in that. It's such an incredible car. I put my best effort into it; I hope people enjoy the story. It's an absolutely phenomenal car.

<Miles_Cook> It's not a muscle car in the sense of what we'll talk about tonight, but it's an awesome, awesome machine.

<Miles_Cook> After Car Craft, I worked on Super Ford magazine - lots of 5.0-liter Mustangs, SN95 5.0s and 4.6s.

<Miles_Cook> We also did some coverage with Lightnings, and an SVT Contour, a project car for Super Ford. There were some stories in the magazine on that car last year.

<Miles_Cook> Super Ford just merged with 5.0 Mustang, so it's one publication now.

<Miles_Cook> All those things were great but I knew I wanted to be writing about new cars and Edmunds is the perfect place to do that.

<Edmunds_Moderator> Eric: In your opinion, who has produced the very best line of muscle cars?

<Miles_Cook> Eric: in past eras or today? In the olden days, it's hard to say which company made the "baddest" muscle car of all.

<Miles_Cook> Two of the most awesome muscle cars were the 70 LS6 Chevelle and 70-71 Hemi E-Body Mopar including Barracuda and Challenger?with enough traction, these cars could run in the 12s right off the showroom floor.

<Miles_Cook> Right now I'm kind of a Ford fan, but Chevrolet rules the roost in the early muscle car era though I have friends who argue that Chrysler made the most awesome muscle cars, especially those with the 426 Hemi.

<Miles_Cook> The Fords of the era - there were fast Fords, but Ford didn't have any thing in the late 60s that could go up against a Hemi or an LS6 Chevelle.

<Miles_Cook> One of the most awesome cars today is the Corvette ZO6.

<Miles_Cook> We'll have a road test on our site on this car in a few weeks, by Brent Romans.

<Edmunds_Moderator> FUN FAQ: A money-back guarantee that their cars would run an 11 second quarter mile was a slogan used by Joel Rosen from Baldwin Motion (He never had to make a refund either!)

<Edmunds_Moderator> Ralph: I have heard about the Corvette ZO6. Have you gotten to drive one yet?

<Miles_Cook> Ralph: I drove it the other day? It's a rocket ship!

<Miles_Cook> It's a legitimate 12-second car, however in our testing we didn't get the car into the 12s, but the track speed was still 112 mph.

<Miles_Cook> It's probably the quickest Corvette ever built, including the 90-95 ZR1, because with the ZR1 was there was so much variance, some would run mid-13s, some would squeak into the 12s. All the magazines are getting high 12s from the ZO6. For bang for the buck, you can't beat it.

<Miles_Cook> For less than $50K, the ZO6 is one of the most incredible cars ever made, considering the numbers it generates on the track - including stopping from 60 MPH in 108 feet (the best number we've ever recorded for braking).

<Edmunds_Moderator> Ralph: Mr. Cook, about how much are they running fully loaded?

<Miles_Cook> Ralph: The window sticker on our car was under $50K. According to our site, the MSRP is $47855 - so with the time you're done with tax and license, it's around $50K.

<Miles_Cook> - about $5K less than a Cobra R and $20K less than a Dodge Viper.

<Edmunds_Moderator> FUN FAQ: The first Super Sport option was first offered with the Chevy ll Nova in 1963, the SS option was only available on Sport Coupes and Convertibles.

<Edmunds_Moderator> Ted: I know Detroit pumped out some of the fastest cars from around the early 60s to the early 70s. Are there any during that classic era that are your favorites and why?

<Miles_Cook> Ted: Probably one of my all-time favorites is a '67 L88 Corvette, only 20 were made.

<Miles_Cook> Other favorites include the usuals, like the 427 Cobra, just about any Hemi Mopar, including B bodies and E bodies, the Boss 429 Mustang, the 70 LS6 Chevelle.

<Miles_Cook> The 71 LS6 Corvette is another favorite, and by the way, the LS6 RPO number is being used for the engine in the 2001 ZO6.

<Miles_Cook> If someone said I could have one car from the 60s, I would probably take a 67 L88 Corvette.

<Edmunds_Moderator> Don't miss the debut of our new Member-to-Member chat on Friday, November 10th, 5-6pmPT/8-9pmET! Why hit the Friday freeway traffic when you can kick back and chat with fellow auto enthusiasts and meet new friends? Watch Town Hall for more details!

<Edmunds_Moderator> Aaron: What automobiles today would you say compare to the glories of the muscle car era of the past?

<Miles_Cook> Aaron: Obviously the first 3 that come to mind are the Corvette ZO6, Mustang Cobra R and the Dodge Viper.

<Miles_Cook> All kinds of other cars during the 90s deserve a place amongst the greatest muscle cars of this decade, including the 95 Cobra R, the only late model Mustang that came factory equipped with a 351W.

<Miles_Cook> Any Dodge Viper is certainly a pretty awesome car, whether a GTS Coupe, an RT/10 roadster, or an ACR.

<Miles_Cook> You can't forget the 90-95 Corvette ZR1, especially the 93-95s that were rated at 405 HP.

<Miles_Cook> The current GM F bodies are also very important cars of the modern muscle car era especially those with the current LS1 engine, which aftermarket tuners are just starting to really learn about.

<Miles_Cook> One more car, which is probably one of the most important of all is the 86-93 Fox -body 5 liter Mustang, specifically the LX hatchback and coupe models, which were lighter than the GTs.

<Miles_Cook> The 5.0 Mustangs from the late 80s and early 90s are probably the car that got the modern muscle car era going again. The performance potential of these cars today is still unlimited with aftermarket-tuned streetcars routinely making upwards of 600 HP with superchargers and Windsor-based engines.

<Miles_Cook> The 5-liter mustang is the 55 Chevy of the 20th Century, it's one of the best 7/8s cars ever made.

<Miles_Cook> It's the perfect raw material for building the ultimate streetcar.

<Edmunds_Moderator> Frank Bohanan: Since the classic muscle cars all had big blocks wouldn't the 8.0L Viper be the only TRUE modern one?

<Miles_Cook> Frank: not all muscle cars had big blocks. Some of the baddest muscle cars of the 60s and 70s were small block-powered including the 70 LT1 Corvette.

<Miles_Cook> The 65 Corvette was a 327 375 HP fuel-injected small block and the Boss 302 Mustang 69 and 70 is also a notable car to consider.

<Miles_Cook> Many Chevrolets that were small block-powered including various Camaros, Chevelles, Novas, and Corvettes were formidable contenders on the street.

<Miles_Cook> Today, the Viper could be considered to be the only big block-powered Muscle Car; however, the ZO6 and the Cobra R are rated at 385 HP which is a net rating vs. the typical '60s-era big block Corvette or Chevelle which had gross ratings.

<Miles_Cook> In essence, the older cars and the newer cars in some instances make about the same amount of power.

<Miles_Cook> All the modern technology we have today (most specifically electronic fuel injection) is one of the reasons the smaller displacement engines of today often make as much or more power than the bigger engines of yesterday.

<Edmunds_Moderator> Ralph: Which would you prefer? One of the earlier models or something newer like the CorvetteZ06 or the Viper?

<Miles_Cook> Ralph: That depends on what I'd be doing with it.

<Miles_Cook> For a daily driver, I'd take one of the newer cars such as a ZO6 or any C5 Corvette - or such cars as the current Mustang GT, a 96-99 Mustang Cobra, as well as just about any V8 powered GM F body, Camaro or Firebird.

<Miles_Cook> For a modern daily driver it would be tough to beat a car like a Camaro SS or a Firebird WS6.

<Miles_Cook> I would take the Formula, not the Trans Am, because it's more subtle and guys in M5s think it's a 6 cylinder!

<Edmunds_Moderator> FUN FAQ: In 1968, the first 396 engine was offered in the Chevy Nova.

<Edmunds_Moderator> Michael: What car today do you think can compare to the '64 Ford Fairlane Thunderbolt?

<Miles_Cook> Michael: I own a 64 Fairlane, post-body style, just like a Thunderbolt!

<Miles_Cook> In terms of the fact that the Thunderbolt was a purpose-built drag car; you could say the 2000 Cobra R is comparable because it's a purpose-built road racer, that in a straight line is also probably just as quick as a Thunderbolt.

<Miles_Cook> (Not that the Thunderbolt isn't one of the most awesome Muscle Cars of all time)!

<Miles_Cook> One of the guys I worked with on Car Craft was a die-hard Chevy freak, but his favorite car was probably a Thunderbolt.

<Edmunds_Moderator> Jake: What would you consider the last true Muscle Car of the 70s and is there anything nowadays that would compare?

<Miles_Cook> Jake: The last true muscle car of the 70s was probably the 73-74 Pontiac Firebird...455 Super Duty Trans Ams and Formulas.

<Miles_Cook> The first muscle car of the 80s many would consider to be a 5-liter Mustang, starting with the 86s that came with fuel injection.

<Edmunds_Moderator> Remember to check out Town Hall to see our Upcoming Chats!

<Edmunds_Moderator> FUN FAQ: In 1969 NASCAR driver Bobby Isaac claimed that the 1969 426 Hemi Charger Daytona car was so stable that any driver could go and run 180 MPH straight out of the showroom. PS: Exactly 503 of these cars were produced to qualify the car for NASCAR!

<Edmunds_Moderator> Frank Bohanan: How about the best of both worlds: a new engine in an older/classic body such as a 5.0L in an old 'stang?

<Miles_Cook> Frank: I had that exact car! I sold it about a month ago.

<Miles_Cook> My 64 Fairlane has a 5-liter with fuel injection and an AOD transmission.

<Miles_Cook> 5-liter EFI swaps into early Fords of all types are very popular.

<Miles_Cook> Also popular are GM TPI small blocks and LT1s into 60s era Camaros and Chevelles. Swapping the LS1 into earlier Chevys is also gaining in popularity. In fact, GM performance parts have already swapped an LS1 into a 55 Chevy.

<Miles_Cook> As far as Chryslers, I know of two cars that are quite interesting.

<Miles_Cook> One is the 70 Challenger with a Dodge Ram pickup 360 engine and an A518 automatic overdrive transmission.

<Miles_Cook> Someone has already swapped a Viper V10 and T56 transmission into an E-body convertible. I believe it was a 71 Challenger.

<Miles_Cook> So yes, modern drivetrains into older cars with an early car from the 60s or from any decade (the street rod guys have been doing it for years) is one of the neatest things that you can do today.

<Edmunds_Moderator> mike: I'm a big Chevelle fan, where do you think they rank on the list of all-time best power cars?

<Miles_Cook> Mike: As I've said, the LS6 Chevelle is clearly one of the most awesome muscle cars ever made, of course, Camaros and Chevelles are one of the most popular cars of all time for those of us that like these kinds of
things.

<Edmunds_Moderator> FUN FAQ: Only 30 of the 201 Yenko Camaro's built used an automatic Transmission.

<Edmunds_Moderator> Frank Bohanan: How about a 572-stroker EFI hemi/T56 in a '71 'Cuda for the ultimate modern muscle car?

<Miles_Cook> Frank: Sounds good to me!

<Miles_Cook> I might go with a 502-crate motor, and a 4L80-E transmission in a '67 Chevelle convertible.

<Miles_Cook> (either one would be a real fun ride!)

<Edmunds_Moderator> FUN FAQ: Ertl starts producing the American Muscle series of die cast in 1991.

<Edmunds_Moderator> Travis: I think the 1997 Dodge Viper GTS is THE hottest muscle car of all time. What's your opinion of it and what would you compare it to in terms of the classic muscle cars?

<Miles_Cook> Travis: One of the stories I wrote in Car Craft compared a Dodge Viper to a Hemi Challenger; so as far as Chryslers are concerned the GTS coupe would be my choice for just about any version of a Viper.

<Miles_Cook> Vipers are certainly a car that deserves a lot of respect, however they're pretty expensive and clearly approaching the exotic price range compared to Corvettes and Mustangs.

<Miles_Cook> Another comparison that might be relevant of course would be to say the 97 GTS, which is a modern version of a 427 Cobra.

<Edmunds_Moderator> Bill: Mustang vs. Corvette. Both have stood the test of time, which do you like better?

<Miles_Cook> Bill: At first my all-time favorite car was a Corvette.

<Miles_Cook> It's interesting that you ask this question, because right now my current favorites are Corvettes and Mustangs equally.

<Miles_Cook> Again, one could argue that the 5-Liter Mustang single-handedly restarted the modern muscle car era, specifically the 86-93s.

<Edmunds_Moderator> FUN FAQ: In 1971 only 108 Hemi Cudas were built. Only seven of the 108 cars built were convertibles!

<Edmunds_Moderator> Toby: What is your opinion (new and old) of the fastest, meanest muscle cars to hit the streets?

<Miles_Cook> Toby: They're all awesome, if I had to pick - I'd pick one of each from the old era and one of each from the new.

<Miles_Cook> Being that the Corvette is a 2-seater and not necessarily a muscle car - many would agree that the most incredible GM muscle car was the 70 LS6 Chevelle.

<Miles_Cook> For Chryslers, it'll be a 70 or 71 Hemi Cuda or Challenger (taking one each of the big 3 manufacturers for this era).

<Miles_Cook> As for Fords, you can't discount 69 and 70 Boss 429 Mustangs, as well as a 69 and 70 428 Cobra Jet Mustang.

<Miles_Cook> As we said earlier, one could argue that the most awesome Ford muscle car ever made (early Ford) is a 64 Thunderbolt.

<Miles_Cook> As for today (taking one car each of the big manufacturers) - Corvettes, Mustangs, Camaros, Firebirds and Vipers are all pretty awesome.

<Miles_Cook> The epitome of those cars today are most likely the Corvette ZO6 (which you can buy right now), Mustang Cobra R, and of course, just about any Dodge Viper, most likely the Coupes.

<Edmunds_Moderator> Thank you Miles! We thoroughly enjoyed this chat and look forward to you coming back and chatting with us again soon!

<Miles_Cook> Thanks for coming in and talking with me about these amazing cars!

<Miles_Cook> I hope you realize as I do that while the cars being made today are unfortunately more expensive than the muscle cars of the early era, we're all fortunate that they're being made at all.

<Miles_Cook> Keep an eye out on www.edmunds.com for more stories on Corvettes, Mustangs and Vipers. We have several up now.

<Miles_Cook> The Corvette ZO6 road test will be posted within the next month.

<Miles_Cook> Thanks for joining us, I appreciate it! Good night!

<Edmunds_Moderator> Members, thank you for stopping by and joining this Special Event Chat with our features editor, Miles Cook.

<Edmunds_Moderator> Don't miss the debut of our new Member-to-Member chat on Friday, November 10th; 5-6pmPT/8-9pmET! Why hit the Friday freeway traffic when you can kick back and chat with fellow auto enthusiasts and meet new friends? Watch Town Hall for more details!