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Ballard, WV Car Consumer Discussions

Re: So .... [1stpik]

by nedzel on Thu Jun 19 11:53:55 PDT 2008

"Honda actually HAS a fuel cell car on the market (along with second-generation hybrids, and the most efficient lineup of i.c.e. cars), but that's all hype. " Honda actually has one on the market? Is it that so? Please go down to your local dealer, test drive one, and get back to us on it. Oh, you don't live in LA? Then you can't get one. And Honda is only building 200 of them over the next three years, so that is a total production of about 67 cars per year, so even if you do live in LA they are probably all spoken for. And the $600/month lease is highly subsidized and doesn't begin to recover the $500,000 cost of the vehicle. But you call that being "on the market"? I guess we have a different definition of being "on the market." Honda makes excellent cars. The Civic and Accord are second and third best selling cars on the market now in the US. I owned an Acura for 13 years (135,000 miles) and will probably buy another Honda in the future. I think Honda is an outstanding company and I hold them in very high esteem. I look forward to more information about Honda's upcoming hybrids in 2009. But that doesn't change the fact that the Clarity is basically an extended prototype test and is totally impractical at this time. There is no infrastructure for widespread production and distribution of hydrogen, let alone doing so economically. Furthermore, even if there was such an infrastructure, no manufacturer has figured out how to economically produce fuel cells. GM, Honda, Ballard Power Systems, etc., have spent billions researching fuel cells for more than 20 years. They still need to reduce the cost of the fuel cell by one order of magnitude. Honda is planning to sell 67 FCX Clarity fuel cell cars per year for 3 years. GM is planning to sell up to 100,000 Volts per year. Will GM reach that goal? We'll see. A price of $40,000 certainly won't help.

Re: Seeing more and more... [andre1969]

by steve_ on Thu Mar 13 08:11:26 PDT 2008

All electric home here (1700 sq. ft). Most recent bill was $123. Heat pump, new water heater, hot tub but few power bricks or lights on if no one is in the room. Highest bill has been around $200, lowest in the shoulder season runs around $48. Idaho Power keeps asking for rate increases because they have to use more natural gas (and coal) when the hydro production falls due to low water. A decade ago, they were a favorite company of investors because they didn't have any nuclear exposure back when the cost overuns were hurting stock prices of other utility companies. They did some fuel cell research (via Ballard Research) but mostly they don't seem to have any interest in wind or solar or any other alternative to petroleum and coal. New hydro sites are pretty limited.

Re: I just love the ENVY! [stevedebi]

by 6sptl on Fri Nov 30 18:21:56 PST 2007

Wrong on multiple accounts, The clarity IS a production vehicle contrary to the VOLT which is a nonrunning protoype, it even uses the lithium batteries that both GM and toyota have said don't even exist *Toyota was going to use them in the prius but could not engineer them for true mass production*!. Though nasa has utilized fuel cells for decades none of their designs have ever been close to practical for anything on earth and none has even close to the same energy density that honda's FC stack provides thus NASA can learn a myriad of lessons from Honda (NASA could not use it anyway since the FC stack require gravity to function). BTW, Hoda's stack is a remarkable evolution of the 90's Ballard stack which was used in the original FCX. AS to the Yukon its about time GM came up with one since both toyota and Honda have been producing hybrids for 10years now! Even after 10 years of delay the yukon is a limited edition vehicle that costs 10K more than the regular HOG version, the entire exercise is too little, too late and in general kind of pathetic.............

Re: FAST COMPANY II [stevedebi]

by toyolla2 on Mon Nov 12 21:43:49 PST 2007

Hi Steve, this link is about series hybrid delivery vans supplied to Purolator (Canada Post) http://www.azuredynamics.com/november262004b.htm Azure were working a deal in the UK with London Taxis International to supply them with a series hybrid cab. At least one was built and shipped from their plant in Vancouver, BC. Later on LTI introduced their new "Black Cab" for London's downtown. Said vehicle turned out to be a 2.2L diesel with automatic transmission. That's right, someone gave the greenlight to mixing thousands of diesel engines in one of the most populated areas in England, go figure. This particular action seemed hardly consistent with government policy to reduce air pollution in urban settings. A while later Azure closed their UK office. Azure Dynamics is a division of Ballard Power Systems. Last week Ballard announced the sale of its automotive fuel cell division. In the meantime it must have been somewhat embarrasing for Azure to learn that the highest mileage hybrid was in fact a Vancouver taxi in the form of a Toyota Prius, which had been running around in their own backyard. T2

Re: Told you so! [marine2]

by 6sptl on Wed Sep 05 20:33:00 PDT 2007

Seven years ago while raking in record profits,no one in the big 3 complained about legacy costs, instead of investing in R&D, the honchos gave themselves bonuses, the union was given a little more to keep quiet and everyone hapilly rode around in a dumb truck based SUV. The legacy costs blame is LAME. Its all about a corporate disfunctional structure. American companies are still an industrial revolution dinosaur, an us vs them mentality between labor and management and a top management whose only interest is not the product but today's profit. Engineering, long term planning and innovation are not anywhere close to the first order of business. WHy can Honda be introducing their second generation Fuel cell vehicle using its own devised fuel cell when no other manufacturer has even released a car with one no matter that none of them even produces a fuel cell internally?? BTW GM is "going " to use a Ballard cell. Why is it that no other automaker in this country (toyota included) want the government to raise CAFE significantly??? If no one has noticed Toyota is well on its way to becoming the new GM in all respects including shoddy workmanship. How simpler can a corporate philosophy be other than: "To create a company that society wants to exist"? That simple statement is a revolution in corporate thought, not a company to make money... but rather a company that due to its excellence and environmental concern and stewardness is an undeniable asset to the progress of society.....now that is some thinking!!!!! :shades:

Re: Series hybrid models [tpe]

by toyolla2 on Wed Jun 27 15:50:51 PDT 2007

Could it at least be said we are both of the opinion that electric power is the most efficacious way to drive the wheels ? We just differ on the source of that power. My suggestion is about proven technology, successful application should be quick, simple and relatively inexpensive. It's the now. Energy storage systems of which you speak are not yet proven technology, development will be slow, difficult and expensive. It's the then. I will agree that there can be penetration of Battery Electric Vehicles into the market if they come suitably equipped with tunes, A/C and at a reasonable cost, this is not the 'Operation Hairshirt' crowd, I know that. But I question whether any car company has the will to do that today. And it is not encouraging when even advocates like yourself insist on raising the bar as you did somewhat when you preferenced in terms of 60+ HP versions. For that particular upmarket, I can't see vehicles to be available in the short term and they will be expensive unless, as they say, the alchemist shows up and soon. Case in point, Ballard Power Systems with its fuel cell design, been in existence seems like forever and still not ready for primetime with consumers. Battery technology indeed is difficult. Meanwhile I, on the other hand, propose a back to basics rethink. Here's the amount of electric power we need - say 45KW (60 HP). Here's the best way (small, lightweight, simple and lowest cost) to generate it - a brushless alternator at 10K+rpm. And since the alternator is going to need a mechanical drive. Here's one of the better ways (small, lightweight, simple and lower cost) to drive it - the 450cc big bore short stroke liquid cooled 4 valve single cylinder engine. This is the horse I am betting on. Thanks, nice discussion T2