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Windsor, VT Car Consumer Discussions

Re: 50 Worst Cars of All Time [Mr_Shiftright]

by andre1969 on Thu Nov 13 09:44:55 PST 2008

Off the top of my head, about the only car on there I'd defend would be the '71 Imperial. The writer was whining about a stupid-huge 440 V-8. But c'mon, when you're moving roughly 5,000 lb of car, would you want anything LESS?! Now Chrysler was starting to cheap out with these cars. For 1969-73, they basically took the Newport/New Yorker body and slapped an extra 3 inches of wheelbase on. All of that was ahead of the firewall, giving the car a longer hood and fenders, but no more interior room. But that's really no different than say, a Cadillac Deville versus a Buick Electra or Olds 98. Longer car, but no bigger inside, all of the extra wheelbase in some useless area. By that time though, big Mopars in general were starting to get sort of a generic look about them. You could get hidden headlights on the New Yorker, and I think they were standard on the 300. They may have been an option on the Windsor as well. You could also get them on the Plymouths, and Dodges some years. So all those clean, hidden-headlight front-ends did start looking alike, and the sides of the cars were sort of featureless. It really was getting hard to tell them apart. Even if they actually shared very little sheetmetal, the differences just weren't enough to notice. Still, it's not a car I'm going to defend to the death or anything. And I'm not gonna lose any sleep over the fact that it made some hack's top 50 worst cars list. I'm actually surprised the 1976 Volare and Aspen didn't make the list. They were a good idea, but the quality was horrible for the first year and a half. They were generally regarded as inferior to the Dart/Valiant that they replaced, but that's pretty much how the 70's worked with domestic cars...the new ones usually sucked worse than the ones they replaced! Ditto the 1980 GM X-cars. They were a good idea at the time, just executed poorly. And by the time the quality was improved, it was too late. I think I might quibble with the Cadillac V-8-6-4 from 1981. It was temperamental, but supposedly all you had to do was pull a wire or two and make it run on all 8 cylinders all the time, and it was a decent engine. If you want to pick on Cadillacs from that era, go for something with the little aluminum 4.1 V-8, or anything with a Diesel! One question about the Chrysler/DeSoto Airflow...weren't those just body-on-frame cars with radical bodies? The article's description of "aerodynamic singlet-style fuselage, steel-spaceframe construction" makes them sound unitized. Did these things really have a habit of, literally, dropping the engine?

Re: I honestly don't see [jchan2]

by farout on Sun Nov 09 14:22:16 PST 2008

I hate to bad mouth a Chrysler brand, but Jeeps are not as good as the name would make you think. I had three Liberty's 2 gas and 1 diesel. The diesel was bought back by DCX as a defective vehicle. However We have had great service from 3 Dodge Neons, and 4 Caravans, and two Dakota's and our Chrysler 2007 Pacifica AWD Touring. I believe you may well see GM go belly up before you will Chrysler. Remember the employees are still interested in a employee buy out...if the price were right. As far as vehicles and how they are made Hyundai has made great strides in improving their vehicles. However even this year there are many short falls in quality that will eventually come up in quality, but a Hyundai still has a huge dump in value over a 3 year period. A Korean car is still just a Korean car. For me I will stand by Chrysler, Ford and GM because I believe in supporting American workers as much as possible. (note..I include Mexico and Canada as Americian) Few would argue that the Windsor plant is not one of the best plants for quality fit and finish. However GM's plant in Kansas has a poor fit and finish. (my opinion) Have you driven a Sebring of 2008 or 2009? For the money this is a great car, (all except the 4 cyl engine) I think Cerberus has made some good improvements in quality, but they like everyone else wants a greater return on their investment. The Automobile industry is not a good investment right now no matter what company you have your money invester in. Should you go to a dealers only auto auction you would not believe how little a vehicle brings today. Cars with 8,000 miles and 1 year old bring less than $ 7,000. Trucks and SUV's are so low you can't believe it. The Korean cars bring even lower return at an auction. Cut Chrysler and Cerberus some slack, after all GM is the one who cant survive beyond January with out a bail out. (by the way I do support the bail out for the US auto industry) after all we did bail out the crooks and thieves how started this mess by selling worthless paper on subprime loans, and if we v=can help crooks we certianly can help the back bone of our economy, the auto industry! farout

Re: 2009 Mazda 6i vs. 2009 Nissan Altima 2.5 [dm1212]

by aviboy97 on Thu Oct 30 13:29:35 PDT 2008

You just ruinned your argument about the Fusion and Mazda 6. Like the Fusion and Mazda 6, The Routan and Town and Country share the same chassis. The Caravan and Routan share a whole hell of a lot more then the Fusion and Mazda6. With the arrival of the 2010 Fusion and 2009 Mazda6, they are more like 3rd cousins twice removed.... Here is where the Routan / Caravan are similar and the Fusion and Mazda6 are not. Routan / Caravan are built on the same production line at Windsor Assembly in Windsor, Ontario. Engines available are two V6 engines from Chrysler's powertrain stable: the 3.8 L V6 producing 197 hp and 230 lb·ft, and the 4.0 L V6 producing 251 hp and 259 lb·ft. Both engines are teamed to Chrysler's 62TE six-speed automatic transaxle with manual shift capability. The body design is similar overall to the Chrysler vans, though Volkswagen designers gave the Routan a unique front- and rear-end appearance to differentiate the van from its Chrysler siblings and bring it in to the Volkswagen family. The interior is all VW as well. Mazda6 is built at AAI in Flat Rock, MI and the Fusion is built in Mexico. They have never shared any body panels, transmissions, suspension, or ECU's. The only sharing that went on was the basic platform (which really does not mean much) and engine design. The Ford 2.3 and new 2.5 are Mazda designs, and the old 3.0L was a Ford, and the new 3.7L uses the Ford block design only. All internals, VV-T, heads, cams, ECU are all Mazda designed and built in Japan.

Re: If GM gets rid of Buick... [nvbanker]

by circlew on Wed Oct 22 12:36:00 PDT 2008

I am one step ahead of you. GM is dead to me as well as Chrysler. Ford is actually OK in my book except they have no cars that are appealing anymore. The LS and the older LSC were far better than any GM I've owned for both performance, quality and overall satisfaction. Lincoln died and it's too bad, really. I'll never forget that 1970 Mustang Cobra my friend let me drive with the Windsor 351. What a great performer. I'm sure the new one is OK but not for me anymore. The GM and C corp. is at the point of no return and good riddance to the old business model. I pray for all of the workers every night, however. Hopefully in the future the US Auto industry will rebuild and make the best cars in the world again without the greed this time around. We can only hope. Regards, OW Regards, OW

Re: Will Trade Stock For A Gallon Of Gas [flash11]

by grbeck on Wed Oct 08 08:10:49 PDT 2008

flash11: I was not aware there were legal ramifications if you did not lend to poor people, surely they knew these people would not be able to pay it all back?! I always thought it was an excuse to cover up predatory behavior so they could knowingly bankrupt naive people, take all they had, and keep the property and house as well, knowing they could sell it for a profit down the road. Groups such as ACORN deemed loan guidelines "racist" because they denied low-income minorities access to loans. The Community Reinvestment Act was rewritten in the early 1990s to give the government more leverage to monitor financial institutions' lending practices, and levy sanctions against those that were not lending enough to poor communities. The banks, once they started lending, did try to make money from this practice. Greed DID take over among lending institutions and Wall Street, and lax lending practices began extending to other sectors (automobiles, for example). Certain car makers (the domestics and Mitsubishi) discovered that one way to keep the lines running and inflate sales figures was to sell brand-new vehicles to people who before would have been directed to the used car lot. Also note that there were big advances in credit scoring techniques during the 1990s, and financial institutions felt that they could better predict which customers would pay their loans back. Unfortunately, they guessed wrong. Yes, there was a lot of greed - among both borrowers and lenders - but the seeds of the current mess were planted when it was decided that credit should be made available to everyone, and the standards that had been used to determine just who should get a loan were thrown out the window under government pressure. flash11: Tell that to the 1 million people who will lose their jobs this year. Anyone who has lost a job has my sympathy, but that doesn't tell us whether the unemployment rate is high by historic standards. flash11: It seems like a ''perfect storm'' of events leading to a major recession. This feels different than the 80's in terms of layoffs and the impact it is making. I lived through the 80's. Outsourcing was not as big an issue as it is today. I have a feeling that we have not seen it all yet. We are not through this yet. Lets hope things start to flatten out on the stock market and not drop any more. It is looking pretty grim. American heavy industry was collapsing in the early 1980s - especially the steel industry - and it was then that concerns were first voiced about the impact of imports on the Big Three. There was concern about the loss of American jobs to other nations. And remember that, in the early 1980s, virtually NO vehicles sold under foreign nameplates were built here. They were imported from either Japan or Europe. flash11: Don't you think the new generation North American cars will compete in price with say the Toyota Prius ($28K fully loaded)? Not that it is the solution but similar cars like it are coming like the Chrysler Jeep Renegade 1L diesel electric car 110mpg. Already Chrysler is putting a smaller diesel engine in their Minivan at the Windsor Minivan plant, and no doubt it will come in a hybrid ($25K?). Not quite an electric car but may be a good alternative to lead us into electric cars. I'm wondering whether Chrysler will even be around in the future. And I hope that the Americans come up with some Prius competitors, but for now it looks as though the Volt will be considerably more expensive than either the Prius or the new Honda Insight. flash11: Unfortunately we will take a hit on price in the beginning but there will be new car buyers out there too who are not as skeptical as you, and at least they will be able to eventually buy into the new technology and have a choice to move into something that does not pollute the environment as much. I'm not skeptical of the cars. The Prius, Civic Hybrid and Escape Hybrid all work just fine. They typically carry a price premium over comparable vehicles, and in tough times, the "green" that people focus on is the green in the bank account. And their goal is to keep as much of it in their bank account as possible. Gas has to be a LOT more expensive to make a hybrid a viable alternative from an pure economics standpoint for most people. That isn't to say that the current crop of hybrids aren't good as CARS, because they are, but costs have to be factored into any purchasing decision.

Re: Will Trade Stock For A Gallon Of Gas [grbeck]

by flash11 on Mon Oct 06 20:20:32 PDT 2008

Very good points. We will have to see if buying all that debt will help banks start loaning money again. Apparently once the Fed starts the bailout process, the Fed wants to force banks to start lending again to people and businesses with good credit. they were under government pressure to lend to poor communities, or face charges of redlining. I was not aware there were legal ramifications if you did not lend to poor people, surely they knew these people would not be able to pay it all back?! I always thought it was an excuse to cover up predatory behavior so they could knowingly bankrupt naive people, take all they had, and keep the property and house as well, knowing they could sell it for a profit down the road. Unemployment in the early 1980s was well into the double digits. By historic rates, it is not high Tell that to the 1 million people who will lose their jobs this year. It seems like a ''perfect storm'' of events leading to a major recession. This feels different than the 80's in terms of layoffs and the impact it is making. I lived through the 80's. Outsourcing was not as big an issue as it is today. I have a feeling that we have not seen it all yet. We are not through this yet. Lets hope things start to flatten out on the stock market and not drop any more. It is looking pretty grim. The projected sticker price of the Chevrolet Volt has escalated to over $40,000 Don't you think the new generation North American cars will compete in price with say the Toyota Prius ($28K fully loaded)? Not that it is the solution but similar cars like it are coming like the Chrysler Jeep Renegade 1L diesel electric car 110mpg. Already Chrysler is putting a smaller diesel engine in their Minivan at the Windsor Minivan plant, and no doubt it will come in a hybrid ($25K?). Not quite an electric car but may be a good alternative to lead us into electric cars. Unfortunately we will take a hit on price in the beginning but there will be new car buyers out there too who are not as skeptical as you, and at least they will be able to eventually buy into the new technology and have a choice to move into something that does not pollute the environment as much. One gallon of gas produces 20 lbs. of carbon dioxide green house gas. In 10 years it will be irreversible according to NASA experts and scientists (saw this on PBS). The world will have to change its habits once we run out of petroleum in 100-150 years.