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Mission, TX Car Consumer Discussions

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by anythngbutgm on Tue Nov 18 07:01:16 PST 2008

However, now that these vehicles can all be equipped pretty much the same way, it does dilute their status in the overall brand hierarchy. Exactly. It also makes the argument that GM has too many brands to support. When there is this much overlap, it just dilutes the mission that each brand once stood for. Again, why is there a Cobalt SS when your supposed "Sporty division" makes do with a base model G5? What the hell is the G3 doing in the Pontiac lineup? What is Pontiac? A lineup of rebadged Chevies (minus the Holden G8) What is GMC? An entire lineup of rebadged Chevies What is Saturn? An entire lineup of rebadged Chevies (minus the Opel Astra) What is Buick? A lineup of rebadged Chevies and a cheap Cadillac The lines are too blurry here. And I think they are blurry to the GM execs as well. For example, remember those commercials when the Lacrosse came out and the guy was playing on the racetrack with his kids while daydreaming of taking off ramps like it was a Ferrari? The Lacrosse is a dull, spongy, soft sprung pillow, yet you'd think the advertisments were making it out to be a 3-series or even an Acura TL. It sure was priced like one when they first came out... Now you can get them for less money than a Cobalt. Then you look across to GM's supposed "everyman car" and you find an Impala SS that looks much more racy and blows the Lacrosse away in exterior quality (interior is still as cheap as the Lax). Why "step up" to an inferior Buick? Or the Aura. When the car made the rounds of the auto show curcuit, GM was touting the car as "Saturns interpretation of an Acura TL". I kid you not. The concept had sharp, racy lines, a center mounted dual exhaust with beefy chrome tips and a 6-speed manual plucked out of a Holden. I mean, the car looked the part for sure, and sure, the end product was a dull, watered-down shadow of its former self but still, why wasn't this car a Pontiac G6 in the first place? The G6 is laughable as a performance car and Chevies own Malibu is a major step up on the interior and exterior styling/quality. Why "step up" to an inferior Pontiac? Is Saturn supposed to be above Pontiac as well? To GM, I have one recommendation. K.I.S.S. ;)

Re: I should look at the bright side... [anythngbutgm]

by andre1969 on Tue Nov 18 06:14:55 PST 2008

Take the 4 Lambdas, how is that "Platform sharing"? All 4 have identical seating, identical AWD systems, identical engines, nearly identical dimensions and similar features. I can load up a Chevy Traverse to be the same amount as a GMC Arcadia. I can also load down a Buick to be cheaper than a Saturn. Truth is they all serve the exact same mission. Yay, so they have different sheetmetal, big whoop. They're clones. GMT-900, GMT-360 - clones The Aura, Malibu, G6 - clones Actually, I don't have too much of a problem with this, because at least it gives you some variety. For instance, I like the looks of the Saturn Aura better than that of the Malibu, and like them both better than the G6. Yet someone else might prefer the Malibu, while others may prefer the G6. So yeah, all the same basic car, just in different flavors to suit different tastes. However, now that these vehicles can all be equipped pretty much the same way, it does dilute their status in the overall brand hierarchy. For instance, once upon a time, a Pontiac was considered a better car than a Chevy, with Olds being another step up, then Buick, and Cadillac at the top. Now there was always some overlap...in fact, even way back in the 1950's, you could get a Buick Special cheaper than the cheapest Olds 88. And if you optioned up a Chevy Bel Air to where it was comparable, it was priced about the same as a Special. These days though, it's hard to really say a Saturn Aura is a nicer car than a Malibu. Yet I think the Malibu is nicer than the G6. But then the G6 has the convertible, sort of a premium body style that neither of the other two offer. One thing I always hated was when they'd just badge-engineer a car, changing simple things like the taillights, grille inserts, etc. Not even bothering to change the sheetmetal. The one advantage there though, is that it does make it easier to find replacement parts in the junkyard. :P

Re: I should look at the bright side... [Mr_Shiftright]

by anythngbutgm on Tue Nov 18 05:01:52 PST 2008

Platform sharing? Really? Take the 4 Lambdas, how is that "Platform sharing"? All 4 have identical seating, identical AWD systems, identical engines, nearly identical dimensions and similar features. I can load up a Chevy Traverse to be the same amount as a GMC Arcadia. I can also load down a Buick to be cheaper than a Saturn. Truth is they all serve the exact same mission. Yay, so they have different sheetmetal, big whoop. They're clones. GMT-900, GMT-360 - clones The Aura, Malibu, G6 - clones Future Saturn Vue, Chevy Cheapuinox, Pontiac Torent, 9-4x, SRX all based on "Theta". All identical sizes, same missions, same engine choices, transmission choices. The rebadging continues... :sick: Platform sharing IMO is taking an Accord and basing the Odyssey off of it. Or the Dodge Avenger/Journey.

gagrice...

by iluvmysephia1 on Sat Nov 15 12:47:17 PST 2008

hold that El-train for me, buddy! I'm pedalin' as fast as I can. Took me a while to catch up...my favorite car websites can have some long-winded..umm...I mean real interesting writers to keep up on and keep up with. If I get even two days behind I'm having to do the Evelyn Woodhead School of Speed Readin' thing to catch up. Add this post to that sort of list. :) Any how, did you see this pic I put up on Edmunds a few days ago. I have the Pinanfarina-Bollore website saved to my faves at home but here at work I don't. I searched on Google for it and got two sites, one has my post here on Edmunds with the picture! Whoo-hoo! Here the little beast is: This thing will have underneath and balanced placement of it's battery pack(Bollore made, I need to access that website to get the particulars on the battery packs)for better handling, about a 200 mile range, a top speed of 85 mph and a charge-up time of 7-8 hours on a common 120-volt socket at your American homes. The hinge-point in my research on this little car is whether or not Pinanfarina-Bollore will import this little monster to the U.S. I will go research when I get home some more and bring some more venison to this table for y'all. I am certainly interested in this car...my '08 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS is currently sitting at about 29,235 miles, getting set to get it's 30,000 mile service soon. So there's really not a screaming need for a 2010 Mitsubishi i-MIEV or a 2010 Pinanfarina-Bollore super-mini in my SE Arizona driveway. But, gagrice, you may have read my Edmund's posts of several months ago where I stated my thoughts on "green" technology vehicles. I have firmly planted my foot in the shipbeds of manufacturers who are working on bringing these types of vehicles to our fine shores. Mitsubishi has won me over, as a lot of you know I have been an ardent Kia fan for years. I still believe Kia is here(West Point, GA, USA)and is in S.Korea to stay. I have stated this fact for years, a lot of times to hoots and catcalls. But Kia is lagging a bit, both with a sporty 4-door sedan that I longed for, and with an all-EV or hybrid vehicle ready to buy at this time. They have now designed a new Kia Forte sedan and Koup that are real lookers. There's a great chance I would've traded the '01 Sportage 4X4 in on a Forte 4-door sedan if it were available in 2007. But it wasn't and the Sportage 4X4 had 130,000 miles on it, was meticulously maintained and was ready to trade. Avondale Mitsubishi treated me well in my trade-in for the '08 Lancer GTS. I made sure they did, the small SUV was very well cared for. BTW-Kia has apparently decided to retain the Spectra name for the new Forte that is coming here in 2009. It's a beautiful new car, body designed by Peter Schreyer, Kia's new Design Chief, wooed away from Audi Motors. Schreyer designed the Audi TT. So, long story somewhat shorter, I have a late-model Mitsubishi Lancer GTS that I love. I also have a yearning to drive an all-electric. gagrice, I'm all over this new i-MIEV from Mitsu like "white on rice." Tee-hee. I really am. I'm following the i-MIEV from Mitsu and the rig from Pinanfarina-Bollore like a hawk. Or perhaps a Seahawk. No, make that a hawk. If Misubishi is going to sell the tiny i-MIEV for only $24,000, then the $7,500 knockdown in price with the energy rebate would be a coup for us. It is quite likely an i-MIEV from Mitsubishi will be my next choice, however, when the Mrs. and I get wild hairs and want to go play in Tucson, 80 miles NW of us here, what will I do with an i-MIEV that only has a traveling range of 100 miles. Plug in somewhere's in fair Tucson? Maybe the only Mitsubishi dealer in Tucson, Wildcat Mitsubishi? Or at Ideal Mitsubishi in Sierra Vista, AZ, about 90 miles west of us here, located near Fort Huachuca. Remember, too, Mitsubishi offers a generous 10 year and 100,000 miles Warranty. That figures strongly in to this search result. These are by no means insurmountable problems here, gentlemen. An excited schoolboy with a chipped front tooth looking like Jim Carrey in 'Dumb and Dumber' going after Mary Swanson(OK, I'm not quite that excited for an all-EV :shades: )on a mission will spare no prisoners and take no down-hearted souls' negative advice as he seeks out a viable energy-propulsion alternative. Foreign oil is vile...it's going bye-bye and it's old-hat. It's spittle in the dusty Arizona flutter-winds. It must pass on by me like Dennis Rodman into relative obscurity. Be gone with you, ghastly! gagrice, the Chevy Volt is not scratched off my list but it's beginning to fade. When they make comments like "we may not realize a decent profit pricing the 2010 Volt at $40,000" I look to the side, just as I would when Baw-bwa Wahh-Wah is ready to speak on "The View". Yikes, Barbara, has the word "retirement" ever entered your mind? You were never really that good and yet you intend on scouring our televisions endlessly? Enough already. So, it's the '08 Lancer GTS, the 2010 Mitsubishi i-MIEV and the 2010 Pinanfarina-Bollore(that may not ever be coming over here, anyway)that have my interest at this point, gagrice. The next purchase is really pointing towards an all-electric. As a side point to boot, BYD of China is building some hybrids and all-electrics, one all-electric is named the e6, with intentions of eventually importing to the U.S. with some of them. Keep an early eye out-they'll make it here. The e6 is a large crossover that BYD envisions selling for taxicabs(taken from one of their news releases)that is really not that homely looking at all, actually. It has a decent body design. It will sell for around $28,000USD. Range of 200 some miles, top speed of 85 mph and is another EV with a 8-10 hour 120-volt re-charge time. I would be remiss to cross the BYD e6 off of my list, but, the i-MIEV stands a sooner chance of landing on these U.S. shores. The Pinanfarina-Bollore is more of an idea of what I'm really more interested in at this time, but it's entirely possible that that train may have sailed before it even gets here. Over.. and, out.

no title

by spirit6100 on Fri Nov 14 00:48:58 PST 2008

How is your terrorist mission going tlong - you are sure working hard

Re: CR's Annual Buying Guide [dispencer2]

by micweb on Thu Nov 13 09:01:27 PST 2008

Cars are a popularity contest. I've had Toyotas and Hondas, and Ford Focuses and Cobalts, and with the exception of the first year of Focus, all were equal in quality and assembly. In fact, the Japanese makes had, overall, more defects, but there were better about acknowledging minor rattles and other minor issues and fixing them right away. The most defects I've had in a car were 3, usually one but often none. The Cavalier was made to "American" quality standards - a little loose, a little off, but highly functional (had a 2004). The Cobalt is made to "Japanese" quality standards - much tighter, much better put together. The Cobalt has some features that are outstanding, like daytime running lights, auto on/off headlamps, a digital MPG, average speed, etc. computer, OnStar, and XM radio. It has the biggest, strongest engine in its class, yet also has top fuel economy. So why does CR pan it? Because auto reviews are a large part of its mission, and sell a lot of subscriptions and special issues. In reality, the spread in actual number of defects between low ranked and top ranked cars is very small, but they don't like to point this out, since it doesn't sell magazines. In fact, if you look at the ranked categories, the '07, '08's are very highly ranked by the readers. If buyers are less happy with their sturdy Cobalts than buyers of Hondas, is that a reflection of the cars or of the buyers? If everyone tells you your wife is beautiful and sweet you will feel happy even if she seems like a nag sometimes, but if everyone says she is plain and average, the nagging will drive you crazy and you'll join your friends complaining too. Positive feedback breeds more positive feedback, negative feedback feeds on itself. That's why it's called "feed back." Michael Milken made investors millions of dollars, and companies even more, by demonstrating that junk bonds did not have a significantly higher risk of default than blue chip bonds, back in the 80's. Car buyers can save themselves a lot of money by studying reliability reports carefully and figuring out which cars, like Cobalts and Focii, are being underpriced in the marketplace to to misperceptions on the part of consumers. That assumes you buy them very cheaply and/or hold them long term, since resale is affected by misperceptions too.