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Bates, OR Car Consumer Discussions

Test drove a couple of '09 WRXs

by rsholland on Sat Oct 18 22:05:28 PDT 2008

I've recently driven two '09 WRXs. WOW! What an improvement! One was a 5-door, and the other was a 4-door with the optional SPT cat-back exhaust. That one, with the cat-back exhaust is pure jail-bate. :) Boy does that sound neat, especially when winding through the gears! Having said that, I think the louder exhaust will soon wear on you, in terms of comfort (especially on trips), but boy was it fun! Also, my wife would just hate it. According to the most recent issue of DRIVE magazine, Subaru has added a rear fender liner to cut down on road noise on the '09 Imprezas, and it seems to be working, as they were pretty quiet in that respect. I was even able to notice that on the louder SPT exhaust-equipped model. I think this new WRX—because it's so good, could really hurt STI sales. Yeah, the STI may ultimately be faster, but for the money, the '09 WRX is soooo much more appealing than the '08 model; plus with the '09 STI you still can't get a moonroof or the AWP.

I am always amazed the prices I see in ads

by newowner10 on Tue Sep 02 12:51:32 PDT 2008

I see a 2009 Sonata with an msrp of $24505. The dealer has a $6119 dealer rebate and a $3400 Factory rebate. (The Rebate I see from Hyundai is $2000). How can a dealer take almost $10,000 dollars off of MSRP on a 2009 car that is $24505?. I would guess that the invoice would be $2000 less and the dealer holdback may be $500 to $1000. Is this a bate and switch that this car has already been sold. This is not a pick-up truck that gets 15 miles per gallon down hill. http://www.colonialhyundaipa.com/ Look at "Internet Specials/View our current ad"

Re: take the challenge [texases]

by techquipment on Tue Aug 05 12:15:23 PDT 2008

OK, fair point when taken at face value and I would mostly agree if the claim was that the energy was released purely from combustion of the hydrogen. I also agree absolutely that the 20% energy extraction is typical of an ICE but note when reading some of the HHO sites that they claim an efficiency increase in the energy extraction process and there's the critical difference. It is very possible (and indeed proven) that the percentage of energy converted into mechanical energy can be increased by slowing the flame propagation in the combustion chamber causing a reduction in irreversible thermal looses, resulting in shorter injector pulses and therefore better fuel economy. Incidentally the current max values for high efficiency Otto cycle engines running on conventional fuels is around 32% conversion of energy into mechanical energy, whereas the max for Diesels is presently around 52% so I'm sorry but there is no 'have to'. Theoretical maximum hovers around 59% based on the Carnot cycle between the adibatic combustion temperature of pump gas (about 2300 degrees Kelvin) and the admitted max working temperature of steel (about 925 degrees Kelvin, and note we're limiting it based on steel, not any exotic ceramics). Some of us in the petrochemical engineering field have worked on hydrated alcohol mixes in steel Otto cycle motors and achieved between 35% and 38% extraction efficiency as a result, I suspect we can achieve more too so don't throw all hope of increased fuel economy away. Think about it this way - the O2 sensors in your injection system prevent very much variation in the fuel exiting your exhaust system and yet you can radically change the mechanical efficiency of your motor by being gentle (or not) with your accelerator despite the pumping losses actually decreasing when you open it all the way up... Most of that difference is in the thermal losses because the expansion rate of the burning fuel mixture is limited, which is why your exhaust temperatures increases. I respect your opinion and maintain a great deal of common ground with you in being cynical of these devices but must note that there is a large potential for improvement in most ICE motors presently for sale. I therefore remain open minded about the possibility of devices which will help to improve the energy extraction efficiency of Otto cycle engines and await results from HHO system manufacturers with bated breath - until then I'll continue working on the fuel development.

2008 Odyssey EX-L w/ RES & Nav

by pkp22 on Tue Jun 03 08:15:39 PDT 2008

I got a price quote for a Black ex-l w/ res & nav for 30K (includes destination charges) + tax and tag. The dealer didn't give me the quote in writing so that I can take it to another dealer. Is this deal a great deal or should I try going to another dealer to see if they will beat it? I've gone to 3 dealers so far. 2 of them used the bate and switch on me and the third one was ready to give me the van for 30K.

Re: Good Honda dealership in Houston Tx area [misserica]

by jjmalu on Tue May 27 23:46:00 PDT 2008

Are those installed options you are talking about the protection package? The one with wheel locks, some paint coating, splash guards, and some sort of trunk mat. I have noticed these added unnecessary features on the Houston cars I have looked at, too. Apparently, they are on all the Honda of Katy and Goodson Honda cars. Regardless I personally think it is a bad time to buy a Civic in Houston. None of the dealers I have talked to will go below a drive out price of 18,400 on an LX sedan except for Russel and Smith, who have offered me 18,200 drive out. Katy said they would beat that offer, but when I got to the dealership they pulled a bate and switch with an EX, and basically wasted 3hrs of my time. I am meeting with Russel and Smith tomorrow evening, so we will see if they actually keep to their word. The Civics are selling very well this month because of the gas prices, memorial day weekend, and the .9% financing. I am most likely going to hold off if I dont get the offer I want. If anyone else from Houston has some advice I would really appreciate it.

Re: Old Inventory Negotiating [jmonroe]

by snakeweasel on Fri Apr 25 16:29:05 PDT 2008

(3) it could be an old school bate and switch. Like, “darn, that car was just sold and we didn't’ have a chance to pull the tags off yet but, hey, lookie over here this is a nice one”. I have a buddy who pulled into a Ford dealership on either Wednesday or Thursday afternoon inquiring about a basic Fusion with a manual tranny. Salesman kept telling him that that car would have to be specially ordered and wasn't sure if he could get one anytime soon and tried to steer him into a automatic. My friend really wanted a manual and was about to leave and the salesman just wanted him to meet the sales manager. Well the sales manager knew something the salesman didn't. That was that the dealership had just taken delivery of a manual Fusion for a big weekend sale where they were going to advertise Fusions starting at a low price (that manual one being the only one at that price). My friend made a deal and even before the car was advertised in the paper he had bought it. Sometimes timing can be everything.