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Bowlegs, OK Car Consumer Discussions

Re: Is the seating position of the Matrix... [mwqa]

by andre1969 on Wed Dec 20 12:59:41 PST 2006

No, I know what you meant, that the Matrix fits you fine. I was just wondering how it compares to the Corolla though. I know they're the same basic car underneath, but that's not a guarantee that the seating position is going to be the same. With my uncle's Corolla, it doesn't have enough legroom for me, and the steering wheel is too low, even in the most upright position. It forces me to sit bowlegged.

Re: SUBcompacts? [kapbot]

by andre1969 on Wed Nov 01 18:55:05 PST 2006

Either way, it didn't appear to be an entire class smaller than my car. If I am correct, why do I care about what classification either car falls into? I'd say it depends on what kind of car you have a preference for. IIRC, an Ion is around 180" long, about 10-12" longer than a Yaris. Now to someone who's used to a Yaris, that might seem like a world of difference, but I spent today driving around in a 221" long behemoth of a New Yorker, so to me the difference between ~170" and ~180" is pretty much nil. However, comparing those two specific cars, I'd say the Ion does feel bigger. I've sat in both. The Ion's seat is lower to the floor, and I don't find it particularly comfortable, but I do find the position better than the Yaris and its ilk, which is more upright, but lacking in legroom, and has a problem with the steering column making me sit bowlegged. The Ion definitely feels like it has more shoulder room as well, which IMO is one of the biggest determinants in how big a car feels. The Yaris is a more space-efficient design than the Ion, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's the better car. All space efficiency means is that the car has a generous interior volume when you take into account its exterior size. But that isn't worth a crap if it's not comfortable to you. To me though, what size a car feels depends on more than just its overall length. There's turning circle, width, how roomy it feels inside (which will vary from person to person), etc. Also, often there is a blur at the edge of size classes, where one car that qualifies as subcompact might not really be much smaller than another that qualifies as compact. The way they determine size classes is basically a function of shoulder room, headroom, and legroom, both up front and in the back seat, plus the trunk volume. So if you have long legs, you really need generous legroom, no matter what the size class. If you have short legs and a long torso, headroom might be more important. And if you're broad shouldered, shoulder room will be important. Shoulder room can be a tricky thing though, because how close you sit to the door panel is really more important than any published figure.

Re: performance? [hwyhobo]

by andre1969 on Wed Oct 25 06:03:59 PDT 2006

You may have noticed, I specifically talked about Aygo which is supposed to arrive in the US some time next year. Yes, it does get 43 mpg city, and there is nothing mythical about it. You can drive it in Europe now. Yeah, but let's see what happens once it's actually on sale IN the United States, and they find a way to muff it up in the federalization process. :P Also, let me clarify on my torture chamber comments. I'm 6'3", 35" inseam. I could drive something like a Corolla, Yaris, xA, etc if I really had to. If I was out in the desert somewhere riding with a friend who had one and he suddenly keeled over dead then yeah, I'd be able to physically drive the thing to safety. I wouldn't starve out in the desert! But I just prefer a driving position where I can stretch out. Otherwise my legs start cramping up more quickly. And that's where most subcompacts, many compacts, and even an embarrasing number of mid- and even so-called full-sized cars fail me. Another area the small cars really need to work on is the location of the steering wheel. It's usually far enough away, so it's not right up against your chest like how cars used to be back in the old days. But I've found too many small cars, like the Corolla, Versa, and xA have the steering wheel mounted too low, to the point that it would almost be better off if they just made it closer to the driver. If it was closer, then I'd be able to fit under it, but by positioning it further away, it puts it between my knees, forcing me to drive in a bowlegged position, and making it harder to reach the brake pedal. And even with the tilt adjustment, they just don't go up high enough.

Re: performance? [Mr_Shiftright]

by andre1969 on Thu Oct 26 12:58:58 PDT 2006

With me it's not so much measured shoulder room as elbow room...how far away the door panel is from my elbow. My buddy's '06 Xterra has something like 58-59 inches of shoulder room, which would have done any 70's midsizer proud, but the way it's designed, you still sit right up against the door. I've whacked my elbow and forearm on it several times, especially if I'd go to put my arm up on the window sill like I would with my '85 Silverado. I can deal with some steering wheel issues, as long as it's not so far away that I can't reach it (which the Corolla's would be if they gave it adequate seat travel) or right up in my chest like a 1947 Buick. And as long as it's high enough that I don't have to sit bowlegged around it and/or it interferes with getting to the brake pedal (Corolla, xA, Versa, Gremlin, 1957-59 Ford). As for legroom, I prefer to sit stretched out, which is something that many cars these days simply can't provide for me. However, if the seat sits up high enough, it'll compensate for the lack of stretchout room. Like in my 1985 Silverado, for example. And provided that the raised seating position doesn't then interfere with the steering wheel and make me sit bowlegged. Also, since I do like to sit with my legs stretched, most dead pedals are useless to me as they rob the footwell of precious legroom. Often with FWD cars though, the wheel well intrudes far enough in that you need the dead pedal to help square off the protrusion, so that would be a useless area anyway. This is one area where old 50's, 60's, and 70's cars excelled. Even in my '68 Dart, a compact, I can stretch my left leg out straight up under the dashboard. And the footwell area is shaped well enough that you really don't need a dead pedal. Another thing I can't stand is when the seat forces you to sit off-center from the steering wheel. The Toyota Tacoma is like this, as is the BMW 6-series, and I'm sure countless other cars. The only time I've ever had a car ceiling actually tickle the top of my head is if the headliner's coming down, though! :P I can't think of anything right offhand that's had inadequate headroom for me up front, although many modern cars have a side curvature, tumblehome, or whatever you call it which interferes with my peripheral vision, and if I were to lean too far to the left I'd come into contact with it. I've experienced plenty of cars though, where I can hit my head on the rear window. And the way I see it, if something low-slung like a '70's LeMans coupe or a Dart hardtop still has enough headroom for me in back, then there's no excuse for a modern car to be inadequate! This might be one area where many subcompacts excel these days, since they tend to be more squared-off and upright.

Re: more craigslist silly folks... [fintail]

by andre1969 on Sat Jul 15 12:17:20 PDT 2006

I never cared for those button tufted seats in the Cressida, either. IIRC though, if you got the velour upholstery, the seats had a more modern looking pattern? Or maybe they were button tufted too, but just didn't look as pimpy in cloth? Kinda odd too, because I never figured the Cressida from that era to be an old person's car, but those leathe seats give it an old fogey aura, which tends to crossover to pimp. I always thought the 2nd gen 929 was a very sexy car, but it has one of the world's worst driving positions, at least IMO. The tranny hump takes out a large portion of the foot area, forcing your legs together, But the steering wheel does not tilt, and it's too low for my tastes, so I'd have to sit in the car with my knees spread out, but my feet crammed together, in kind of a bowlegged position. I remember at the time, the salesman telling me the reason that the 929 didn't have a tilt wheel was because it had an airbag. And I believed him. And totally forgot about the conversation with time. Until a few years later, when I bought an '89 Gran Fury, with an airbag AND a tilt wheel! :blush:

Re: More on A4 engineering [sxrxrnr1 #402]

by davking on Thu Jul 01 19:35:36 PDT 2004

I guess you and the A-4 just weren't made for each other. Aren't you glad it is your wife's car? I never drink anything while driving so the cup holder doesn't bother me, but I like to play with it. The center counsel provides support for my leg, and I'm bowlegged. I set the temp once and forget it, as suggested in the manual. Driving with windows open lowers gas mileage. The seats have won an award from a chiropractic group. I love them and I have a bad back. To each his own, and may s/he successfully find it.