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My follow-up from Land Rover North America

by ihatelandrover on Thu Oct 16 14:50:47 PDT 2008

I'm trying to put some closure on my experience with Land Rover, and thought I'd share some details. I had a used 1999 Discovery II that died within two years of ownership. I then traded it in for a 2004 Freelander, which died at 50K miles last April due to the all-too-common coolant leak issue. The dealership that I purchased it from (Land Rover Bellevue) treated me very poorly throughout the entire experience. I won't go into full details here, but I had to pay $1,000 out of pocket for the engine replacement (yes, I had a full extended warranty through Primus -- they're great at finding loopholes). The sales staff treated me like garbage and wouldn't even consider a trade-in on the vehicle (but another non-Land Rover dealership in the area took it sight unseen!). Land Rover North America was no help either. All told, I estimated to have lost $20K on needless repairs and loan pay outs (for both vehicles) in order to get into a new vehicle. I sent a letter that fully detailed my experiences to Land Rover North America (both to Tim Watson, VP Communications, Land Rover North America and as a general inquiry), Land Rover Bellevue, and the Washington State Attorney General. I did get a personal phone reply from Mr. Watson's office -- I got a shallow apology for my troubles and an offer to save $1,250 towards the purchase of a new or pre-owned Land Rover vehicle. I can't believe that they would think that I purchase a third piece of junk after the way I was treated! Land Rover is obviously out-of-touch with how to build quality vehicles and how to treat customers. There are many, many other brands on the market that far surpass the quality of a Land Rover, at far more reasonable prices. My advice is that if you start losing coolant, dump the car. I feel so sorry for everyone else out there that had similar experiences. Be sure to contact Land Rover North America, your local Land Rover dealership, and your State Attorney's office and let them know how you feel. I see fewer and fewer of these on the road and see lots of negative press. I hope that they go out of business soon! :lemon:

jimbres

by marsha7 on Sat Aug 02 19:41:09 PDT 2008

"The problem is that American consumers don't want to buy what the Big Three is trying to sell."...that is certainly one of the points that I have tried to make over many posts...we can disagree on whether "junk" was the proper term, or whether the problem was the UAW, but that is the most sweeping accurate generalization of the problem that we don't want what they sell, for whatever reason... But here is another question I have often asked...why can't we tear down an Accord, a Camry, a 3 series and 5 series and simply reproduce their best attributes and add our own form of style and design???...since GM is the master at badge engineering, who cars if the car resembles an Accord???...or a 325???... I simply cannot believe that we cannot make a 4 cyl engine as good as an Accord, or a suspension as good as a 325...BMW does not have a patent lock on springs, shocks and sway bars, and that is what makes up the suspension...why can't we make a handling machine like BMW, or a smooth and quiet 4 cyl like Honda or Toyota??? It is obvious that the MARKET likes what Hon/Toy make, so why can't GM and Ford imitate that???...maybe give us a reason to buy, like when the 4-4-2, Impala SS and GTO were some of the nicest cars made??? Did they fire all their stylists???...the nicest Big 3 car ever made was the Cutlass series, 70-72, Rocket 350-4bbl, 400 trans, 4-4-2, Doc Watson, all that stuff...why can't they bring back THAT Cutlass (under another nameplate, since Olds is gone)...

Re: GT-R [ace47]

by bigmclargehuge on Mon Jun 02 20:10:20 PDT 2008

Elementary my dear Watson. I looked up the definition of 'reverse-engineering.' I found out you don't have to reverse-engineer an entire car. You can just pick and choose little bits and pieces and technologies. So no, you don't have to build from the ground up. And I suppose Mitsubishi and Subaru also came with AWD ideas from Porche? And Subaru also copied the boxer design? Well they sure didn't invent any of those things. Actually it was Audi's quattro system that was first developed AWD for on-road use. And it was Benz and BMW that developed the first flat engines and boxers. Get your facts straight. Actually you should check your own automotive history, because the first Skyline GT-R was in 1969. It was a performance version, not a luxury version. The R32 was just the first one to reach supercar status because they benchmarked it against the 959, at the time the world's only AWD supercar. If Nissan benchmarked against a 480hp car, and then decided to use 480hp, by definition they reverse-engineered the specs of the Porsche. They copied a few things, deal with it. Initial production of the car was the required 5000 to allow for homologation starting on May 22, 1989 which with critical acclaim by the motoring press along with heavy demand for the car, Nissan opted to allow an unlimited production run which went on sale to the public in August 1989, and began its Group A campaign in 1990. ^^^ see there, there was a huge media frenzy over the car before it was even sold. Very similar to the R35 hype of today. Umm.. if its the GT-R on the R35 chassis, it is in fact the R35 GT-R. Its like 997 Turbo. 997 is the current chassis, but each model from Carrera to GT2 has a different designation. Sure, I don't have a problem calling the EVO a supercar in its high-power versions. The Z51 Corvette isn't really a supercar. The 911 Carrera isn't really a supercar. But the Z06 and the GT2 are supercars. So if the FQ-400 crosses that fuzzy gray line in performance, it can be one too. And Porche can hardly be credited as the creators of AWD cosidering the Dutch came up with the first AWD car. You'd actually be wrong, Porsche can be credited as the creator of full-time 4WD for road vehicles, even though he never put it in an ICE 'car'. The Dutch Spyker did that 4 years later. Isn't it interesting how one of the first 4WD electric vehicles ever was invented by Ferdinand Porsche in 1899? Things that the Japanese may have perfected 100 years later, but they sure didn't invent them. And you might wanna do your research again. The Japanese are the world leader in automotive tecnology and machinery. Why don't you enlighten us all with examples? I'll start with aluminum monocoque chassis. Invented by Honda for the NSX. What else you got? I'm not sure who or what you're arguing against. The GT-R is a fine vehicle. But why do you think everything else ever made was crap? I wonder what do you drive, and is it crap because its not a GT-R?

Re: Everyone loves a good mystery [avalon02wh]

by jkinzel on Sun May 18 15:51:08 PDT 2008

Dr. Watson?

Exclusive: Executive compensation in Michigan

by rockylee on Sat Oct 20 06:49:07 PDT 2007

Cha-ching! Pay skyrockets for top 50 Michigan's top-paid corporate executives are raking in nearly double what they made in 2001 at a time when deep economic turmoil has cost tens of thousands of workers their jobs. The average compensation of the Fortunate 50 -- The Detroit News' ranking of the most highly paid executives at Michigan's publicly traded companies -- was $7.1 million in 2006, up 88 percent over 2001 or more than seven times the rate of inflation. No. 1 on the list is Alan Mulally, who was hired away from Boeing Co. last fall by Ford Motor Co. as its new president and CEO. His compensation package -- for four months on the job in 2006 -- was worth $28.2 million, according to Ford's proxy statement filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission. Richard A. Manoogian, chairman and CEO of Taylor-based Masco Corp., placed second with total compensation of $17.3 million. Corporations are required by law to make public the pay of their most highly rewarded executives via an annual filing with the SEC. Amounts posted include base salary, cash bonuses, stock awards and miscellaneous pay and perks. The average weekly compensation of a Michigan Fortunate 50 member is 174 times that of what the average Michigan worker collected in 2006, $784.34 a week. By contrast, Mulally's 2006 package worked out to $541,990 a week over a year, while Manoogian earned $332,560 weekly. The widening pay divide is a sore spot for many workers in Michigan."I don't know what you tell workers that are laid off about executives at the company that are making millions and millions of dollars," said Pete Lupo, managing director of Pearl, Meyer & Partners, a New York City compensation consulting firm. "If you can go back and demonstrate their pay has a direct correlation to the performance of the company and is within the peer norms, that's the only answer. "But it's difficult for many people to understand it because they can't relate to people being paid millions of dollars a year." Executive compensation packages have swelled even as Michigan companies slashed 171,900 jobs from their payrolls over the past five years. Last year, 11 executives from seven Michigan public companies made $10 million or more, according to company filings. In 2001, one executive topped the $10 million mark. Average 2006 compensation for the 50 people on this year's list was $7.1 million, with the No. 50 executive earning $2.7 million. In 2001, the average was $3.8 million, with the earner on the lowest rung making $1.85 million. Other findings in 2006: • Base salaries averaged $843,838, 16 percent higher than in 2001. • Bonuses, which include both gifts and performance-based rewards, averaged $1.7 million, up 103 percent since 2001. • The executives reaped about $1.9 million in stock rewards on average as well as $1.9 million in stock options last year. • Executives at 18 Michigan companies made the list. • Fifteen managers on the list worked for companies that lost money in 2006; Ford led the way with $12.7 billion in red ink. • Twenty-one top players worked for companies that lost stock value in 2006. Nationally known psychologist Robert R. Butterworth said anger is building among the work force over these huge executive compensation packages. "Workers don't like it when executives are making all this money and they are being asked for wage and benefit cuts or face layoffs," said Butterworth of Los Angeles. "People don't forget these things." Gary Wolkowicz, a 37-year veteran at Ford's Rouge plant, says top managers are "showing their greed and not being fair." "It's outrageous that Alan Mulally is making so much money at the same time they keep asking us to accept so many cuts," he said. Compensation experts, however, say some positive signs are emerging from the pay packages posted this year. More bonuses and stock awards are being tied to performance goals while base salaries have climbed only 16 percent. While Michigan's economy is suffering, many of the state's larger companies are national or even global corporations. Regardless of the local climate, companies often have to compete to hire and keep top-level executives. That means offering competitive pay and benefits. In Mulally's case, for example, $18 million of his package was reimbursement for money he left on the table by leaving Boeing. Andrew Goldstein, central division practice leader for Watson Wyatt Worldwide, a consulting firm with offices in Southfield, said firms in crisis sometimes have to offer huge pay packages to lure new executives. "Sometimes a distressed company or a company going through a lot of turmoil has to pay more to attract an executive," Goldstein said. "Why would an executive leave a company to take a risky job at a struggling company? "It's pay, pay and more pay." http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070504/BIZ/705040409 -Rocky

Re: ALG List is current [ateixeira]

by chelentano on Tue Sep 18 14:34:02 PDT 2007

Yeap, and I also remember: "I think there is a world market for about 5 computers" - Thomas Watson (Chairman of IBM), 1943 640k ought to be enough for everyone" - Bill Gates on computer memory, 1981 ...and finally about cars: "With over 50 foreign cars already on sale here, the Japanese auto industry isn't like to carve out a big slice of the US market" - Business Week, 1968