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The question is, if we "bail out" the US auto....

by carnaught on Mon Nov 17 13:13:42 PST 2008

.... industry, where will the money go? Some financial gurus say it will go their (especially in the case of GM) retiree's pensions and benefits. They have more on their retirement schedule than active employees. Apparently, considering their salaries and benefits, their employees are making $71/hour. This is not to mention the high salaries and golden parachutes that go to their high executives. Didn't Mulally at Ford Motors get a multi-million signing bonus and package yielding him $28 million in four months earlier this year? Isn't the UAW, for all their good, helping to bank rob these companies? Don't these companies badly need reorganization and then renegotiation? Do I want our tax dollars going to these companies? I don't know the answers, but help me understand why I should if this is where the dollars will go? Will it just prolong the inevitable?

I ask..........

by rockylee on Mon Nov 17 06:43:30 PST 2008

imidazol97, Well those UAW, retiree members might as well ask teachers to give up their health and retiree benefits also to share in the sacrifice. Hell everyone needs to have their pension, healthcare, 401K benefits cut so we can help "every company" not have to borrow money to provide their goods or services at a reduced rate and make more money so the CEO's will have more money to fuel that corporate jet and pay themselves lavish bonuses. That means you and gagrice, should start sacrificing as I'm sure this recession has affected ya'lls respective companies. Gagrice, should start signing over part of his pension check to compensate the golden goose that laid his golden Teamster Pension eggs. ;) I assume many others like imidazol97, have retiree benefits from the private or public sector and should go in today to your employer and say "Hey boss, times are tough right now and I want to give you back 50% of my pay and benefits because despite the fact that I may or may not of earned my modest pay and benefits I just don't want to be labled greedy" :surprise: It is unbelievable that only a few of you are interested in fixing a broken system and the others like the economy believe you can "cut" your way back to the black. All statistics show the less disposable income your average americans have the lower the standard of living your average americans will have. It's not like we've seen automobile, clothing, food, healthcare, cost become cheaper in the "free-market" ;) The bottom line is if people like the UAW, workers make less it will have a domino effect and you can kiss a lot of small business good bye and the chain effect will make the large ones have to restructure as well !!!....I guess adding millions more to the unemployment lines because we let the "Free Market" work without fixing a broken system that's okay by many. I guess that is until you or a spouse find themselves in the soup line with millions of others !!! :sick: -Rocky

Re: gagrice, feast on this info. as far as... [gagrice]

by ruking1 on Sun Nov 16 08:32:14 PST 2008

I am sure the Tesla team is in the "true" belief mode, but my take is it is a media event phenon. The plant is scheduled to go up not far from here, but economically it is almost totally nonsensical. San Jose has been "anti" business for literally decades. link title It would seem the ultimate strategy is to make this once "tech golden triangle" a tech SOLAR R& D and proto type manufacturing area with the same drill- world wide manufacturing (aka cheapest place to locate plants). (Goal of 25,000 new jobs) Till then, a 100k Tesla will strictly be boutique sales. For the same monies, I would druther have the new Corvette ZR-1, Carbon fiber MONSTER.

What happens to all the 2008s?

by msboston on Sat Nov 15 09:32:46 PST 2008

Hi everyone. I am hoping to purchase a 2008 G 35x. I've been doing quite a bit of shopping and know there are a lot of them on the lots (I've seen some lots with 30 and some as high as 60!). I'm holding out to hopefully get the best deal. Looks like the best I can get right now is approx. $33,000 for the '08 with premium. However, I know this is just about KBB value for the car now and is not really giving me a "deal." I was wondering if anyone has heard any inside scoop on what the December incentives may be? I know the sort of golden rule is you will never get a car for under invoice, but how that can be when there are all these '08s out there? Don't dealers/manufacturers have to get desperate at some point and offer big discounts? I guess I'm just curious on how the whole process works. Please be kind; obviously, I am not a gear head, lol. Thanks in advance!

Re: Pay Scale [joshuag]

by kipk on Sat Nov 15 04:27:25 PST 2008

>"I was listening to news pundants talking about the UAW and they said that an average GM employee makes 75 dollars and hour when a Toyota employee who works in the US makes 40 per hour. Why would GM agree to a pay scale that is that ridiculous? " That $75 per hour includes paid vacation, paid holidays, paid sick time, paid health care, pensions, and other paid items. The hourly wage included in the pay check is more on the order of $28-$30+ per hour. But all the " Extra" compensation adds up fast. The Toyota workers "PAY" is more on the order of $18-$20 per hour plus bennefits. Less bennefits than the UAW workers. Still that is more than the guy at another type manufacturing facility in the same area earns. >"Why would GM agree to a pay scale that is that ridiculous? " When times were good and strikes were threats, management caved in so that manufacturing will continue. Then when times are not good, they have to live with those decisions. Or maybe, we the tax payers do. :sick: That's where I have a problem "LOANING" or GIVING Billions of dollars to them unless they have a serious change in management, and in union concessions. The money will be gone in a heartbeat. How would they pay it back??? Isn't that like "LOANING" money to someone that has too much debt to pay their mortgage. Unless they have a major life style change, they will be back in the same boat as soon as the "loan" is used up. The "Golden Egg" Laying Goose has been strangled to a point that it is gasping it's last breaths. Unless those doing the strangling stop, and those that allow it to happen are dealt with, the goose will die. UAW workers may say,"Well, I'm not going to work for $20 per hour and lose some sick days and some days off. I'm not going to contribute to my healthcare. I don't think slackers should loose their jobs. Obama is going to look out for us" Yeah right! Kip

Re: Ahhhh, so now [oldcem]

by m1miata on Fri Nov 14 18:46:18 PST 2008

State and local governments give any big employer tax breaks to enter into their local and hire. Nothing is uneven here - period. As for temporary and non-union work, all I can say is that they are surviving, and employing and building a company, while the opposite is true of a dead company. If a company can not let go of employees to lean-out when markets slow, and has to pay for more than is normal just to satisfy contracts, that golden goose gets cooked = no company - no employees. The government / taxpayers should only help GM and Ford, if the employees agree to help keep their company alive. And in the end, all need to realise just who they do work for. The CEO down to the janitor at GM and Ford work for you, the customer. Sure, they can work for the Union, or work for the fat paycheck, or whatever, but in the end it all boils down to the consumer. Somewhere, long time ago, too many forgot just of whom they really do work for.