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Orlando, OK Car Consumer Discussions

Let's inject...

by grbeck on Tue Nov 18 07:46:01 PST 2008

...some facts into the discussion, please. Not ALL of the Big Three are going to collapse simultaneously. These companies are in very different situations, even though the lazy media prefers to lump them together. Ford has the money to make a go of it until it brings new product - Fiesta, all-new Focus, restyled Taurus - to market within the next 18 or so months. The company has reduced production capacity to bring it in line with demand, and sold Jaguar, Land Rover and Aston-Martin, all of where were cash drains and distracting management from focusing on the core brands - Ford and Lincoln. Quality is on the upswing, too. General Motors is in dire condition. But a restructured GM is still a viable enterprise. Only problem is that a restructured GM would be a much smaller company, sized to serve about 15-18 percent of the market. The best solution would cause the buy-American crowd and Lou Dobbs to have a stroke. But if the government really wants to save GM, it should turn it over to a foreign company - preferably Toyota - and give said company carte blanche to make the changes necessary to right the ship. GM's current management has a mixed record at best. The quality is still uneven; the brands are still a mess, with too much badge engineering and overlap; it changes nameplates too often; and there isn't anything on the horizon that will really increase market share. The Volt is not going to be a money-maker, and the Cruze doesn't look any more exciting than the Cobalt. The Camaro is sharp, but one retro-styled pony car isn't going to save GM. The brutal truth is that Toyota has done a much better job of meeting the needs and desires of American consumers (check the sales figures and market share trends); its quality is still, as whole, superior to GM's quality; its marketing is far superior; and its brands have essentially displaced comparable GM brands in the hearts and minds of customers. Toyota is the new Chevrolet, while Lexus has far more prestige than Cadillac among the younger, more affluent customers who will matter in the coming years. With a restructured GM, Pontiac, Saturn, Hummer and Saab would go away. Buick and GMC would be combined into one division - call it LaSalle - and share platforms with Chevrolet at the lower end (although no economy Buicks, or LaSalles, please) and Cadillac at the near-luxury end. Chevrolet and Cadillac would be GM's big guns. The Jobs Bank would go away, and UAW members would accept work rules the same as those at the transplant operations. If the government is going to inject any money into GM, use it to fund the UAW VEBA. Most of upper management needs to go, too. Keep Bob Lutz for continuity. If GM needs anything, it is culture change. The world no longer revolves around GM, but I get the impression that GM management and the UAW haven't quite figured this out yet. Second, "good enough" isn't good enough anymore. But the last thing we, the taxpayers, need is for GM to receive aid that only postpones the inevitable, necessary restructuring. If we give GM money now - the way GM and the UAW want us to do it - prepare GM to beg for another cash infusion in about 6-12 months. As for Chrysler - it's toast. Cerberus has suspended new vehicle development, leaving the company basically dead. At this point, the best thing that could happen is that foreign companies buy up the remaining valuable parts of Chrysler - Jeep, the minivans, the Dodge Ram and maybe the LX cars. The rest is worthless. And the collapse of one of these companies will not bring about the next Great Depression. If Chrysler collapses, for example, Ford will pick up the slack, especially in rural areas. There will still be a vibrant domestic automobile industry. People seem to miss that Honda, Toyota, Nissan and Hyundai are expanding their presence here, building vehicles that were designed HERE with American tastes in mind. Their footprint in American will only increase. And the collapse of one of the Big Three will have very little effect on areas outside of their operations. There won't be marauding bands of unemployed auto workers in southcentral Pennsylvania if GM or Chrysler collapses. Nor will there be Unemployed Auto Workers Gone Wild in San Francisco, Dallas, Orlando, Seattle, Boston, etc. Sorry, but the Big Three aren't that big anymore. It's not 1965 anymore...and let's not quote hysterical press releases from biased, industry-funded sources to "prove" otherwise.

no title

by jbjtkbw00 on Mon Nov 17 06:31:49 PST 2008

Yes, you are correct. Except for the 2004 model year, the aluminum border is for the Limited models. The engines are the same, you just get some other appointments like faux chrome around areas of the interior like the door handles, speakers, etc. I believe the leather seats are standard in the limited as well. It's just cosmetic really. Will not affect performance or your looks on the exterior (other than the aluminum around the window and the fake vents next to the front tire wells), those being the most important of aspects anyway ;)

Absolutely

by sandman46 on Sun Nov 16 11:57:13 PST 2008

That's our time frame actually. Have seen some good prices on '07 & '08 Sentra's also. Think the Sonata is a bit big for her. She really wants my '06 Civic but i really like my car and plan to keep it for a long time...hit 18k this week so should be good to go for another 5 or so years. Looked on Craig's List and see that dealers also post cars there. We do have options though. Orlando Hyundai called and said they have an '09 Accent with the power package but he's yet to call back in a 1/2 hour as he said he would...and that was around 11:45. Our '08 Accent will be in from Miami tomorrow and if all checks out, we'll have it by the end of the week. Nice that the dealer is right across the street from us...makes it so much easier. The Sandman :)

what size fits

by respect4crs on Fri Nov 14 10:16:44 PST 2008

i want to put 19 on my 95 3000gt with 245/40/19 will they fit

Re: I heard a conversation today... [kirstie_h]

by mikefm58 on Wed Nov 12 10:58:24 PST 2008

That's a good correlation and I was wondering the same thing myself. Are we helping out a failing business model and at what expense? I like the example one of the previous posters has made. If I'm about to buy a Chevy and they go bankrupt just before I buy, then I shift my business over to Toyota. One company loses and one company gains. I used to work for IBM, who was taken down by Microsoft as we all know. The net result was an increase in IT professionals needed. Lots of displaced workers and local communities that got hurt, but in the end the American economy and consumer benefited. My opinion is boo hoo for the failing auto companies. If they had run their business correctly all along they wouldn't be in this situation. Let them fail.

Re: Is it possible to back out of a car purchase? [stovebolter]

by mikefm58 on Wed Nov 12 11:04:46 PST 2008

If you pay more to a lousy salesman, you won't get any perks, but the salesman will have a somewhat broader grin when he tells people about the latest seal he's clubbed. Bingo!!! Just because one pays more doesn't gaurantee them more perks. I would hope one who does pay more is smart enough to know who to pay it to and who not to. I also like the example of going in to a crowded bar and ordering a round of drinks. I get my drinks and give the guy a $10 tip or maybe $20 in good times. Who do you think will get waited on first next time I step up for the next round?