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Atkinson, NE Car Consumer Discussions

Re: Tagman? [cyclone4]

by lexusguy on Tue Nov 04 09:55:46 PST 2008

The current 400h is based on the 3.3L engine, which is more than a decade old. It's more efficient thanks to Atkinson cycle, but it still uses port fuel injection, doesn't have VVT on the exhaust valves, etc. Just switching to the new 3.5L should bring nice gains in efficiency and power, even with Ni-MH batteries. Please post your impressions when you test the new RX, especially on the interior and the new NAV system.

Re: 2010 Fusion Specs [aviboy97]

by captain2 on Mon Oct 20 15:12:36 PDT 2008

not that many years ago - mid/late 80s I think - when Mazda was asked to develop a replacement for the venerable Mustang - the Probe\MX - this was the first of Ford and Mazda working together - perhaps too closely - because IMO it has hurt Mazda. Mazda had been a pioneer in alternative engine types (Wankel/ Atkinson cycle) and with Ford's influence that largely stopped. At the time the 4 bangers came from Mazda and were generally preferrable to the antiquated (Vulcan) V6s that Ford contributed. That the new 2.5 is from Mazda and that the 'new' DT 3.5 (or 3.7) is from Ford shouldn't surprise anybody. I agree with you - better ideas come from Mazda (not Ford)

Re: 50 MPG Possible after battery depletion? [tpe]

by kdhspyder on Thu Oct 02 05:55:25 PDT 2008

I'm going to guess that the ICE is tuned to the Atkinson cycle since it's been stated that the ICE will run at a constant state in it's most efficient condition. I can see that a smallish 1.4L engine could run be tuned to run @1500-1800 rpms all the time with shutoff when there was little or no load. That's essentially what the Prius 1.5L rates on the highway under the old EPA testing cycle. That's also what most drivers get in real life if conditions are perfect and speed is not too high. 50 mpg is very attainable with a combination of ICE and battery for an extended period....the current Prius is driving proof. Essentially what GM has is a vehicle that will be equivalent to the Gen 3 Prius and prolly the new Insight for extended trips with no recharging. However it will also have the flexibility to be a gas-free vehicle for times around home ( or a recharging infrastructure ) where trips are short.

Article Comments - WRC Rally New Zealand

by KarenS on Mon Sep 29 12:34:48 PDT 2008

It's at breakfast, sucking down my second bowl of Weet-Bix on the first day of the New Zealand round of the World Rally Championship, that I realize why world rallying is unlike any other motorsport on earth. Sitting in the restaurant at the modest Novotel hotel in Hamilton, I notice Subaru driver Petter Solberg joining his teammate Chris Atkinson for breakfast. He's the second world rally champion to drop in. WRC Rally New Zealand: Adventures in Low Key and High Tech

2ZR-FE for 2010 Prius ?

by toyolla2 on Thu Jul 17 12:29:54 PDT 2008

Wasn't the 2010 Prius rumoured to be subject to cost reductions ? Although so far I've not heard any details following those CEO prognostications, some say the engine will be moving to a version of the 1.8L 2ZR-FE double VVt-i. The adoption of the "R" family engine is to be across the whole range according to Kdhspyder, our resident 'mole' if he doesn't mind me saying. I see also that Chrysler, not to be outdone, has gone this route of providing the wider camming authority of double VVt in the 4 cylinder engines of their current offerings of Caliber,Jeep Patriot, Compass, Sebring, Avenger and Journey. At Toyota we know that the Corolla has already gotten the 1.8L 2ZR-FE. Wiki shows a third member, the 2.0L 3ZR-FE at 140 Hp, which could be a base engine for the Camry line as gas enters $5 territory. The Hybrid Camry could then become the power version for Camry replacing the V6. That would clarify the Avalon role to be the sole choice for a V6 sedan at the dealership. It appears that all three engines share the same bore of 80.5mm which is up from the previous 75mm for the Prius. Normally piston bore is a good indicator of power for a given piston speed. In this case power varies between the three engines because of increasingly longer strokes while leaving red line max rpm almost the same for all three engines at 6000, 6000 and 5600rpm resp. , with power ranging from 124Hp to 140Hp. Since they have the same bore it is clear that Toyota gets the power via higher and higher piston speeds across the range afforded purely by increasingly longer strokes. There must be cost savings in having the same bore size over a range of engines. Makes you wonder though how critical bore/stroke ratio can be in the final analysis ! That does prompt the question regarding a business plan that builds three engines which differ overall by only 16 Hp. Perhaps someone out there could enlighten us ? The 1.8L 2ZR-FE double VVt-i is as mentioned the current Corolla engine and I can't see them using this in the Prius when the smaller 1.6L 1ZR-FE engine at the bottom of the "R" range is available. This smaller engine still outperforms the 1.5L 1NZ-FE by 20Hp. A 40Hp increase by the Corolla engine seems excessive even when reduced by Atkinson camming. I have to assume they are going with the 1.6L 1ZR-FE. They may also slow it down to 5000rpm. The following estimations show the effect. This junior member of the "R" family has a much reduced stroke of 78.5mm compared to 87.4mm previously The Prius piston speed will now be 90% that of the previous engine because of the new shorter stroke. When you factor that in along with the larger bore you would expect a 3.5% increase in power with the 1.6L but you would be wrong. In this case double VVt- i appears to deliver almost 20Hp or 20% more power which is hard to understand. On the torque side we would expect Atkinsonizing to cause a drop off of 25lbs-ft of torque so we might expect 90lbs-ft to come through this time instead of 82lbs-ft. It will be interesting to see how MG1 handles this. Either the PSD ratio will be increased speeding MG1 beyond 10000rpm or MG1 will be beefed up to handle the new torque. T2

Re: What is the point? [kingacres]

by mike_mpg on Sun Jul 13 09:06:03 PDT 2008

The problem now is the premium on a Prius. The payback before took about 4 years compared to a Toyota Corolla. With A $2000 premium it takes over 8 years. A comment about all hybrid systems. They only provide benefit for frequent stop-and-go driving. If you're an LA freeway driver, then this is the car for you. If you are driving long distances without a break, then a diesel like the Jetta is the car for you. The prius can get high 40s on the highway too, but because of good aero drag, narrow tires and a very small engine (1.5L) running Atkinson cycle. I used to think the mild hybrids offered by GM were pointless too, but they also shut off on coast and at intersections, making them lower emissions cars in that use. The 2.4L engine also runs Atkinson cycle, which improves economy a bit, but the car is much bigger and heavier than a Prius. There may be no premiums on the Malibu Hybrid and since GM is hurting right now, you may be able to score an incentive from GM as well as the IRS incentive. The IRS incentive for Prius may have already been used up. Hmmmmm. I personally love the styling of the Malibu, but that doesn't save any gas.