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Albion, NE Car Consumer Discussions

Re: what costs are included? [snakeweasel]

by markcincinnati on Tue Jul 11 14:10:22 PDT 2006

E85 is said to be able to substitute for gasoline. This, superficially is correct. You can fill your FFV with gasoline or E85 or even mix them -- the car will adjust and run along, singin' a song, do da do da. If the supply of E85 and all the factors in addition to sheer quantity are such that E85 can be brought to market at a lower price and with profit it will be sold at the highest price the consumer is willing to pay. At some point, E85 certainly appears to stand a chance of not being a fungible commodity. E85 will be limited in its interchangeability, that is, unless the selling price drops to the point where ethanol and gasoline again become economically fungible. Once the two products are interchangeable from the customer's selfish point of view, they/it will seek price equilibrium. So, while supply of E85 is constrained (for whatever reason), it will (as it appears to be now) be more expensive than gasoline -- and this is in part, I think, but cannot prove, because the miles per tankful provided by E85 are not widely perceived to be substantially different than would be provided by gasoline. Indeed, the commercials for FFV's are careful to NOT claim the mileage with E85 will be equal to or better, but the information that follows the FFV information suggests that "FFV will join Ford Motor Company's group of green vehicles." And, "we're proud that Ford has more [alternative fuel motivated] cars that get over 30MPG's than any other domestic automaker." My lawyer wife said, "the implication is that the FFV's from Ford will achieve better gas mileage than cars that are not alternative fuel cars." But, technically, the spots never say the FFV cars/trucks will go further on a tank of E85 vs gasoline -- the implication by association is what makes it appear to be so. Once we get beyond the naive understanding of the differences in "range" per tankful for E85 vs gasoline and once we link a price per tankful more to a cost per mile to drive (even if we just do this casually, "you know Bob, I seem to fill this dang thing up nearly twice as much as I used to fill it with regular?") than just the pump price, we will need to have the price of E85 be at least the same "per mile" if not slightly less to offset the added inconvenience of using it (more trips to the fueling station.) When we get to a point where the market is able to understand the differences and accept a price that equates the price of E85 with gasoline (and perhaps a few cents less per gallon to offset the noted extra trips for refueling), when gas prices go up, E85 prices will also "track" gasoline. The price of E85, for some time, will have to be no more than 68% the price of gasoline (and I submit E85 will have to be more like 65% -- or less -- of the price of the dino fuel. Then to use a somewhat flawed analogy from above, we will not be looking at Coke and Jack Daniels, we will be looking at Coke and Pepsi and the prices for E85 and E0 or E10 will remain reasonably close to each other. These commodities will only be able to widely diverge in price to the user if they somehow do become Coke and Jack Daniels in the customer's mind. The situation as it stands now seems to be to claim E85 vehicles won't cost any real money more to acquire and that they will run similarly on E85 or gasoline (and this, today, is simply NOT the case.) The individual consumer will NOT behave this way: Columbus Telegram - Columbus, Nebraska 11 July 2006 A major increase in the price of ethanol, resulting from limited supply and high demand, has drastically affected E85 sales. Jeff Johnson, general manager of Sapp Bros.' Sinclair, 4300 23rd St., said when the pumps were opened last July he hoped the station would be one of the first to offer an innovative and lucrative product. When the pumps opened the price for E85 was set at $1.899, but since then pure ethanol has increased by $2.30 a gallon, more than double the price a year ago. According to Johnson, last year, on July 1, unleaded gasoline sold at Sinclair was $2.19 and now it is $2.76, not the dramatic jump reflective of E85 prices. “Since we have gotten into the E85 business, ethanol has gone through the roof,” he said. “Ethanol prices are killing E85.” White Star in Albion and AJ's C Store in Duncan, both owned by John Sellhorst, installed E85 pumps in April and June 2005, respectfully. Sellhorst said ethanol prices have hurt sales to the point that he has not ordered E85 since April, when a price boom occurred. When E85 “first started out, it was well received,” he said. “But the price of the product has skyrocketed and hurt sales. ... We have not been changing our price because it has not been selling.” Johnson said Sinclair was in a similar bind, and the current price of $2.769 is reflective of when the price of ethanol was purchased at a much lower cost. Last year, according to Johnson, E85 offered at Sinclair was 30 to 40 cents a gallon cheaper than unleaded gasoline. Currently, Johnson said E85 prices have shifted and would be more than 40 cents a gallon more expensive than unleaded gasoline if the tanks were refilled. Phyllis Stopak, manager of AJ's, said E85 sales were extremely slow. “I don't think we have sold any in the month of June,” Stopak said. Joan Sokol, manager of White Star, said there were no sales of E85 last week, and less than 20 gallons were sold the week before. “People won't pay higher prices to get less gas mileage,” Sokol said, except for state vehicles. Johnson said he also noticed a trend of state vehicles being the primary consumers of E85 fuel. “The sad part is the only people we are selling to are government entities,” he said. Steve Sulek, administrator of the Nebraska Transportation Services Bureau, said the state utilizes 690 FFVs and during the 2005 calendar year consumed more than 75,000 gallons of E85. “It might have been more if (E85) was available in more locations,” Sulek said. Consumption is expected to be approximately the same in 2006, he said, because of an increased number of commercial filling stations offering E85, from 15 to 29. Sulek said the last time he fueled a state vehicle, the purchase price of E85 was $2.97 a gallon, but if it “reached around $5 a gallon it would obviously make a difference” in terms of an executive order by Gov. Dave Heineman. On May 20, 2005, Heineman signed an executive order directing “all state agencies using fleet vehicles to require state employees to use E85 ethanol ... whenever available within a reasonable distance, while operating a state flexible-fuel ... vehicle,” according to a weekly column he had written at the time. FFVs are built to handle E85. “There's no doubt that alternative fuels have a positive impact on local economies,” Heineman said. “We will all save money as state agencies pays (sic) less for fuel." Yeah, why sure, you betcha! :surprise:

E85 prices headed up

by gagrice on Wed Jun 21 15:07:34 PDT 2006

E85 arrives at co-op pumps STACY LANGLEY, The Huron Daily Tribune 06/21/2006 The Cooperative Elevator Co. recently made a place for the ethanol-blend at its retail fueling stations in Ruth and Pigeon. Tim Sielaff, vice president of petroleum for the Cooperative Elevator, said they went on-line offering E85 at the Ruth location on June 7, followed by the Pigeon location several days later. Today, all systems are a go. “Our customers can now pull in, fuel up and pull out with E85 in their tank,” Sielaff said. “Adding E85 is a move that I feel shows the commitment we have made to our growers by offering alternative fuels and biodiesels here at the co-op. “We’ve been in the ethanol business for more than 30 years, offering ethanol products. And we’ve been in the biodiesel business for seven or maybe into our eighth year. Now we can say we’re the first ones in Huron County to offer E85 retail.” E85 FlexFuel vehicles can run on any combination of gasoline and/or E85, a fuel blend of 85 percent ethanol and 15 percent gasoline. Sielaff credits E85 as a move toward creating energy independence in the United States because it diversifies the source of transportation fuels beyond petroleum. And he said it provides positive environmental benefits in the form of reduced greenhouse gas emissions. “Using E85 is an option. Research has shown many owners of flexfuel vehicles are unaware their vehicles are capable of using E85, but recent strides are being made across the state to better inform consumers about E85,” he said. “We (the co-op) are currently working to purchase several vehicles that will use E85 — right now we are in the bidding process to do so. Our gasoline pick-ups we are using now burn a 10 percent ethanol blend, and all of our diesel vehicles use biodiesel. It’s important to us because of the investment the farmers are making in the co-op — we want to in return do everything we can by using the products and supporting the soybean and corn growers here.” The sales fleet Sielaff mentioned involves about a dozen vehicles. “We’re working on trying to figure out exactly what we need. Right now our sales people use their own vehicles, and you can’t tell someone what to do or what to burn in their own personal vehicles. We want to have all our own fleet that uses E85. We plan on labeling those vehicles and promoting the products made by many of our growers — promote corn and soybeans,” he said. “It makes sense financially to do this. We will have all the vehicles lettered letting people know they are E85 vehicles — just another opportunity to enhance our growers’ value.” As for value right now at the pump, Sielaff said the Co-op is offering E85 at a price slightly higher than unleaded gasoline. He said it’s simply a matter of supply and demand — there just isn’t enough E85 to go around. One reason is refineries have switched their production from winter-grade gas to cleaner burning ethanol-based summer grades. Nationwide they’ve stopped using MTBE (methyl tertiary-butyl ether) and are switching to ethanol, which is more expensive to make and costs more to get from an ethanol plant to the pump. “Ethanol is expensive — it’s expensive to buy, it’s expensive to truck,” Sielaff said. “Right now at the pump in Ruth (and Pigeon) we’re selling it for $2.99 a gallon. The only reason we can do that is because we bought some prior to contracts expiring. Today our E85 is very close to the same price as no-lead. But if I had to go buy it today, it would be about 80 cents higher than no-lead. And at those prices I don’t think there are many people who can afford E85 at rack price. “We’re doing our best to find the best prices we can. We want to be able to provide this to our customers with the expectation that a year or two years down the road there will be more supply to meet the demand and the cost will come down.” Sielaff said that demand by other states across the nation for ethanol is yet another reason E85 is so costly. “Right now ethanol is the fuel oxygenate of choice for most refineries in the United States after a fierce battle with (MTBE). Oxygenates are chemicals added to gasoline to make them burn more efficiently,” he said. “The ethanol trend is good news for Michigan, because it is expected to create hundreds of jobs and spur millions of dollars of economic growth in areas that choose to produce and distribute the fuel.” A typical ethanol plant making 40 million gallons a year employs about 50 people. Michigan is among the nation's leading corn producers with more than 257 million bushels a year. Currently Michigan Ethanol LLC in Caro is the lone ethanol plant in Michigan, producing 45 million gallons a year. Michigan still is 11th in the nation in terms of overall production — but not for long. Sielaff said four more plants are on their way. They are Great Lakes Ethanol in Riga, Superior Corn Products in Lake Odessa, Andersons Inc. in Albion and Marysville Ethanol of Marysville. All which are expected to come online within two years and combined produce more than 200 million gallons of ethanol a year. “When they can increase the supply, of course the price will go down. Right now they can’t keep up with the demand for E85,” Sielaff said. “We get calls from all over the state for biodiesel and E85, now we can offer it at our retail locations. We can cater to the public, our fueling systems are designed to be unattended to help keep the costs down. We want to be able to set people who are interested in becoming customers up with a card, then all they have to do is pull up to our filling station, insert their card and fuel up.” Sielaff said the co-op also recently invested in the first biodiesel plant in Michigan (Michigan Biodiesel LLC) which will begin production in July. Located in Van Buren County, it’s a 10 million gallon plant and has the versatility for using multiple feedstocks. Biodiesel is nontoxic, renewable, and biodegradable fuel produced from domestic resources such as soybeans. It is a cleaner burning fuel than petroleum. Pat Anderson, chief executive officer of the Cooperative Elevator said “the purpose of the minor investment of 1.176 percent in Michigan BioDiesel LLC is to have a viable interest in the biodiesel market and to promote the use of renewable fuels with agricultural products.” “We did this is for the long-term investment in alternative fuels,” Sielaff added. “We actually made a cash investment in a biodiesel plant. There was a limit to the amount of stock that any one entity could own. We didn’t purchase the maximum amount, and we surely would have liked to have purchased more. We feel biodiesel is important — being a totally grower-owned co-op it was important to use the products that come back to where they originate. “Instead of sending corn and soybeans away and not getting anything back, we want to reuse the products we

Tire Pressure Warning Light

by darndt on Thu May 11 08:20:10 PDT 2006

I have a 2002 Olds Aurora, the low tire pressure warning light keeps coming on saying low tire pressure, but when I check the tire pressure thay are all where thay should be at 30 psi. If I reset the warning light it still keeps coming on. Can anyone tell me why this is happening and how to fix this problem? Thanks, Dave

Re: . [grbeck]

by fintail on Sun Mar 05 18:19:05 PST 2006

Other than the American cars, yeah. I have a couple of Vauxhall Crestas and Victors. I am not too familiar with Brit commercial vehicles, did GM hold any interest in those makes? Matchbox made a lot of Bedford and Commer trucks, along with some other oddball makes like ERF, Karrier, Trojan, Albion.

Re: prepare to admit defeat! [Mr_Shiftright]

by fiatowner on Mon Nov 14 00:51:47 PST 2005

All Hillman Imps, and the derivative models - Singer Chamois/Sunbeam Imp/Stilletto etc. were made at Linwood in Scotland. Prewar there was Angus-Sanderson and Argyll (saw a 1900 Argyll in London last week at the London Brighton veteran car run...) but I think there must have been some other postwar Scottish cars, mostly kits I should imagine. Albion also made cars pre WW1, but were still making buses and trucks - as part of Leyland group - until early 70s. Re the Probe, I saw one of these at a car show once - it only came up to about my knees, and to get out would have involved severe contortions.

NY Times article

by prlady1 on Fri Aug 31 14:20:16 PDT 2001

Thanks again to those of you who (along with Edmunds.com CEO Peter Steinlauf) responded to post #92 re: hot cars. Below is the NY Times article that resulted. Enjoy! When Hot Cars Go Cold By MICHELINE MAYNARD DETROIT -- THE Lexus SC 430 is the chief object of automotive desire this summer. Demand is high, supplies are short and dealers are charging thousands of dollars over the $60,000 sticker. But to Jay Shoemaker, the elegant convertible is old news. Mr. Shoemaker of San Francisco got his SC 430 in March, and he has already sold it, pocketing $8,000 in profit. When he ordered the car in December 1999, he was the second person on Lexus's waiting list. Now he is looking ahead to his 2002 Mercedes SL500, which he ordered a year ago and plans to pick up in Europe next April. It will be the 74th car that Mr. Shoemaker, 49, has owned, most of them convertibles and all but five of them imports. "My average tenure for owning a car is one year, although if I really like it, maybe two years," said Mr. Shoemaker, chief executive of the Coppola Companies, a collection of businesses — including a winery and movie studio — owned by the filmmaker Francis Ford Coppola. "I generally try to be early on the curve so if I don't like it, I can always get rid of it without losing my shirt." While the market for generic cars and trucks has been buoyed by discounts and incentives, there is strong demand for a handful of hot models. Aside from the SC 430, there are waiting lists for the Ford Thunderbird roadster, the Acura MDX sport utility and even the Honda Odyssey minivan. Their scarcity makes them all the more desirable, said Ron Pinelli, a consultant with Autodata in Woodcliff Lake, N.J. "When something is in short supply, you feel special because you have it," Mr. Pinelli said. "Despite the economic downturn, there are still plenty of people with the money to buy whatever they want." Automakers both love and fear trend surfers like Mr. Shoemaker. Their early-bird purchases help to kindle interest in new cars, but their fickle tastes have been picked up by the broader market. Shoppers looking at an array of vehicles, with a wide range of prices, are now eager to drive the hot new thing. Carmakers are scrambling to figure out not just how to generate heat, but how to keep hot cars from getting cold. Wesley Brown, an analyst with Nextrend, a market research firm in Thousand Oaks, Calif., says vehicles have become personal accessories as much as transportation. "We've become a much more fashion-oriented, image-oriented society," he said. "We're always looking for what's going to make me look great, what's going to make me feel great." That is one reason Peter Steinlauf bought his SC 430. Mr. Steinlauf, 54, chief executive of Edmunds.com, a Web site for car buyers, fell in love with the SC when he saw the first pictures of it a year ago. The romance continued upon delivery. "You sure feel very popular" behind the wheel, he said. "Strangers stop you to talk about it." There is a price to be paid for being first. Some California dealers are charging premiums of $10,000 and more for the 2002 Thunderbird, which starts around $35,000. One dealership that is charging only the sticker price is Albion Motors in Albion, Mich., about 100 miles west of Detroit. Seven customers have placed nonrefundable deposits of $5,000, said Andrew Blackledge, the dealership's Internet sales manager. Trouble is, Albion Motors will get just two 2002 T-Birds; its prospective buyers are on waiting lists for 2003 and 2004 models. Even those guaranteed to get T-Birds may wait longer. Production was halted on Aug. 15 because of a cooling system problem, and resumed only yesterday. Such glitches can contribute to a car's losing its buzz, said Art Spinella, founder of CNW Marketing Research of Bandon, Ore. His research indicates that interest in the T- Bird, which has been repeatedly delayed, may already be fading. Mr. Spinella conducts focus groups in which he shows photos of coming cars and asks consumers to rate their interest. An average score is 100. On his first test of the T-Bird, conducted in June 2000 in Florida and California, buyers gave it a score of 140. By January, its score had dropped to 129. Another Ford vehicle, the hulking Excursion S.U.V., shows how quickly a hot vehicle can go frigid. When Ford unveiled the Excursion in 1999, the company expected it to be a huge success. But even before the Excursion came to market, environmentalists attacked it as an excessively large gas-guzzler. Soon after, gasoline prices spiked. "A lot of high-income people just decided, `Enough is enough,' " said Michael Luckey, analyst with the Luckey Consulting Group in Pompton Plains, N.J. At the height of its popularity, Albion Motors sold about 10 Excursions a month. It now sells about 2, Mr. Blackledge said. Interest remains high in the Honda Odyssey minivan, still a suburban status symbol three years after it came to market. Odyssey sales are actually down slightly this year — not for lack of buyer interest, but because of a production quandary. Both the Odyssey and the Acura MDX sport utility are built at a plant in Alliston, Ontario, that is at full capacity. Honda has had to cut Odyssey production to build more MDX's. At the moment, the scales are tipped in favor of MDX, which has a four-month waiting list; the Odyssey wait is generally about three weeks nationwide, said a Honda spokesman, Andrew Boyd. Supplies of the Odyssey should ease up late this year, when Honda opens a factory in Alabama that will be devoted to the minivan. But even the biggest sensation of the late 1990's, the Volkswagen New Beetle, has struggled to stay in the limelight. When that car came out in 1998, "you could have sold truckloads if you could have gotten them," said Gary Smith, general manager of Halbinsel Volkswagen in Escanaba, Mich., who sold the first New Beetle in the country. Since then, the cars have become widely available and deals abound. Edmunds.com says customers across the country have been paying an average of $400 below the $17,325 sticker of a basic New Beetle. But Mr. Smith is already looking ahead. He is awaiting a convertible version of the New Beetle, for which he already has one order, though VW still hasn't said when that car will go on sale. Mr. Smith is also lobbying for VW to build a new Microbus based on a design study that was shown to the public last year. "If they ever decided to produce it," he said, "it would be a smash."