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Big Laurel, KY Car Consumer Discussions

2009 Civic LX Coupe automatic purchase

by jjh220 on Thu Jul 02 23:41:42 PDT 2009

Hello all, I recently bought a new Civic LX Coupe with an automatic transmission. Let me tell you my story (warning: it's long and detailed, skip to the bottom of my post for the Cliff notes). Location: Maryland and Virginia (I live in MD). I initially went through Edmunds in order to ask some dealers for quotes. I soon realized that a more efficient way would be to go through cars.com since it allows one to view all the dealers within a specified distance from your zip code, as opposed to only 5 dealers that Edmunds displays (making up new zip codes is a pain). After requesting quotes from roughly 15 dealers, I waited roughly 3 hours before the "good quotes" started pouring in. Let me explain what I mean by that. As soon as a quote request is submitted, a dealer's computer system sends out an automated response "Thanks for your request, we'll get back to you soon". A short time later, many dealers will send out a second email blast along the lines of "Hey, while we research the pricing for this car for you, are there any colors or accessories that you really wanted too?". Don't bother answering that email. After about 2-3 hours you'll get the actual information that you wanted (i.e. prices). Some of the responses will sound like they are computer generated (maybe because they are?), others will be more personal and obviously written by a live human. Note: don't write anything in the comments field when you first ask a dealer for a quote. It is useless. All the dealers look at is the car make (ex: Honda), car model (ex: Civic) and the trim (ex: LX Coupe auto). I first tried asking the dealers to provide me their price for a Civic with a number of accessories on it (more on that later). Not a single response I received acknowledged that part of my query. Save that for until you start communicating with an actual human being. Based on what I've read on this forum, my "target" price was $15, 500 (including destination as well as mud guards/wheel locks/door edge guards) with the tax + dealer fees and the MVA fees being extra. My strategy: once a quote was received, I'd send out a counter-offer with the price above. If more than one dealer accepted my offer, I'd them ask for additional accessories in order for them to earn my business. I clearly stated I was prepared to buy within a week but would prefer to make my purchase immediately. Summary of my communication with the dealers (their responses to my counter offer): Ourisman Honda of Laurel: Where are you coming up with the 15,500 number? It seems a little low. Criswell Honda: I am glad you are doing some research, but be careful! You have to compare apples to apples. The $15,500 was because of incentives that Honda has now ended, you have to sift through the forums to recent sales and check location as different districts get different incentives. With the Protection Package installed, you are looking at $16,118 plus doc fee of $100, tax and tags...I think that you will find my pricing to be very aggressive, are there a few more pennies to be had, only your presence will tell. Ourisman Honda of Bethesda: The prices you will be getting will vary between $100 to $300 give or take, you will not see a big difference in pricing. You as an internet customer all dealer's will give you the bottom line price's also please keep in mind that all dealer's pay the same amount for the car. I don't know if it is the right decision to hold off till next weekend or even by the end of the month. As you know Honda is a Hot selling car and there might not be as good as a selection toward the end of the month. The 2010 model will hit the showroom by next month and the price for the 2010 will be significant higher than the 2009. Regarding your offer, we are very close. I might be able to do your offer of 15,500 but I need you here so I convince my GM to make the deal. Your presence is your power. Fairfax Honda: I would like to help you out but my quote is plus the freight charge ($670.00). That I can do for you. We also already include the appearance package (mudguards, floor mats, clean-up) at NO extra charge. Landmark Honda: [They responded to my email with a counter offer by sending me the exact same quote. They followed up with 3 or 4 more automated emails but with little useful information (besides the original quote, which was above my "target price") ] Honda of Tysons Corner: 2009 Honda Civic LX Coupe Automatic Stock#9H504986 $14,291 as advertised plus all fees......when would you like to come in and finish this up? Looks like our price is quite lower than what you have received elsewhere....no need to continue shopping.... [and a follow up message]: $14,291 plus everything.....all fees. $670 freight, $299 processing, $495 for wheel locks, splash guards and the 8 "Edge" benefits, plus taxes and tags. It still should come out lower than any Out The Door quote you have received. It is a blow out loser deal on one specific stock #. Let me know how you wish to proceed my friend..... Leesburg Honda: The "PRICE QUOTE" that I have just sent you is a "REAL" competitive one. But, if you can get for $15,500 with the destination included and with protection package as described, then I would highly recommended you to confirm with that dealer before making a trip there. As for me, I will be here for you if things do not work out there. Thanks. Pohanka Honda: [Many messages. There was some confusion about the price they were quoting me but $15, 500 with the destination charge + wheel locks + splash guards + door edge guards included is what they were able to do. More on Pohanka below.] Herson's Honda: I think I can get close to your price request but the only accessory we add to our car is wheel locks. The other accessories I would have to charge for. If you can do without them let me know. Sport Honda: Yes the LX coupe auto, muds and locks is the pro pack Other dealers: I either didn't send them a counter offer (because I already had plenty of information by then) or they didn't respond to it, By now, I have had in hand 4 dealer quotes that were right around my "target price": Sport Honda, Honda of Tysons Corner, Pohanka Honda and Ourisman Honda (Bethesda). Herson's was pretty close too. Actual dealership experiences : First I went to Pohanka Honda. They certainly had quite a selection of Civics: 56 of them (so finding my favorite color was easy). I took a quick test drive and we started to work over numbers. They were willing to do $15, 600 including the destination charge & the processing fee as well as the wheel locks, splash guards and the door edge guards, with the tags and tax being extra. I asked for one more accessory to clinch the deal: Honda Bluetooth. They were unable (or unwilling) to include that into the purch

Re: 07 CORVETTE FOR 06 CTS - A GOOD EVEN TRADE? [robh3]

by xtranaut on Wed Jun 03 12:48:54 PDT 2009

Your points make good sense and believe me, I OVER-analyze things (often to my detriment). The problem in all things is WHAT THEY DON';T ADMIT OR WHAT THEY DON'T TELL US. I guess, in this equation for me, I have to cover the possibility that I may not be able to trade this car for a long while so whatever car I decide on, it's got to be one that lasts longer than 50k before I have no choice but to rebuild and engine or something else major. To build a car on the premise that the less you drive it, the fewer problems you will encounter, is a philosophy that I do not wish to purchase a car on, knowingly. I can compromise with cheap interior materials from GM, but not purposeful lack of mechanical integrity. Even the Corvette deserved to be dressed out like a Ferrari inside - instead of a Mazda but to get a performance car with high quality mechanical build, I overlooked it. It won't be in the shop every five thousand miles and will last as long as my reasonable care of it. This said, I wouldn't buy a Toyota Camry anyway. The quality of those cars has decreased markedly over the past few years and Hyundai is passing them by. Sitting on your laurels at number one will always be a major downfall in any game I was amused to read a review of the 09 IMPALA the other day where the writer was trying t find something good to say about the SS and ending up saying something like, "despite GM's over-corrected front wheel over steer that made the correction worse than the problem, step on the gas for an Jekyll-Hyde personality surprise and experience the thrill of 3700 pounds of garbage thrust to adrenaline pumping launch.". I knew what he was saying. I have also owned garbage cans with big engines and not much of any other kind of character but certain eventual scrap iron. To reiterate, I LIKE the car and I want to think that it is not what I read. Unfortunately, I can not afford to pay the dealer for an extended warranty so I have only the remainder of the 4/50k as a comfort zone. So --- you sound like a meticulous person who appreciates your CTS ....reading of problems and recalls and a lower than average reliability rating as well as an unattractive resale value, what would you do in my case?

Re: Ooh yummy! [210delray]

by andre1969 on Fri Jan 30 05:57:33 PST 2009

Just wondering, I may have seen this same car! It was a 4-door sedan, green and white, and IIRC, it had Maryland plates that read "JET AGE." This was in the late 80s at the Sully (Plantation) Car Show in Chantilly, VA. I don't have any photos of it unfortunately. You know what, I think that is the same car! Once you mentioned the license plate, it clicked in my brain! I think I saw the car twice, at Allens Pond in Bowie Maryland, in 1991 and 1992. There's also a show in August at the race track in Laurel, so I might have seen it there, too. I probably have a picture of it stashed away somewhere. I think the car also appeared in a writeup in the auto section of the Washington Post, or it might've been a smaller paper, like the Prince George's County Journal. I wonder what ever became of that car? I never could keep the DeSoto model names straight, but those '57 and '58s were great looking cars, as were the Chryslers. DeSoto switched their names around a lot back then, and it probably confused a lot of buyers. In 1953-54, the lineup was PowerMaster/Firedome. PowerMaster was the flathead-6 model, and Firedome was the 276.1 Hemi. I don't know if the Firedome had a nicer interior or other extra amenites, as the PowerMasters I've seen have been pretty nice inside. For 1955-56, the lineup was Firedome/Fireflite, with the high-performance Adventurer being added in mid-year. The name change gave the illusion that DeSoto was reaching into higher-priced territory, but in reality, the Fireflite was priced about where the Firedome had been in '53-54 (adjusting for inflation), while the Firedome was priced about where the PowerMaster had been. The Firedome by this time had a cheaper interior and a 2-bbl V-8, while the Fireflite had a 4-bbl. So the cars were offering some new features compared to the older models, but really didn't move upscale compared to other brands. 1956 was a very good year for DeSoto. While the industry in general cooled off a bit compared to 1955, DeSoto sold almost as many 1956 models. In calendar year sales, which include part of model year 1957, DeSoto actually outsold Chrysler by a small margin, something it had never done before, and would never do again. For 1957, the DeSoto lineup was expanded by adding the cheap Firesweep series. It was priced around $175-200 less than a comparable Firedome, and was fairly popular, although I imagine it cannibalized some sales from the Firedome. IMO, it was a bit grubby looking. It was on the shorter Dodge frame, which had a 122" wheelbase, compared to 126" for the "real" DeSotos and Chryslers. They used a DeSoto body mated to Dodge fenders and hood, and then stuck the DeSoto grille on. The result was a bit awkward up front, as the DeSoto grille didn't fit too well, and jutted out too far. Also, while the Dodges had a headlight setup that gave the illusion of quad headlights, with a big turn signal mounted inboard of the headlight, the Firesweep just used a single headlight in that space, which IMO gave it a bit of an owl-eyed look. The Firesweep was also a bit cheap inside. A Dodge Royal was probably a better deal overall. I believe they were a bit lower-priced, but had the same engine and a nicer interior. DeSoto kept the Firesweep/Firedome/Fireflite/Adventurer lineup from 1957-59. Sales were strong in 1957, at around 117,500. But they plummeted to around 49K for 1958 and 45K for 1959. For 1959, the Firesweep posted modest gains and, interestingly, so did the high-priced Adventurer. But the Firedome/Fireflite, which had been DeSoto's main market in the past, posted a loss. For 1960, the hierarchy was scrapped, and a two-series lineup was offered, both on the shorter 122" wheelbase that was shared with the Chrysler Windsor and the Dodge Matador/Polara. The cheap model was called Fireflite, but it was priced about midway between the 1959 Firesweep and Firedome. The top model was called Adventurer, and it was slotted price-wise, about midway between the 1959 Firedome and Fireflite. The true high-performance Adventurer was gone, but they did offer a cross-ram 383 setup for the 1960 Adventurer that had 330 hp. For 1961, just two body styles were offered, a hardtop coupe and hardtop sedan. They were just called "DeSotos", with no model names. That same year, Chrysler introduced the Newport, which was about $100-150 less, and at the point, DeSoto was pretty much made obsolete. For 1962, Chrysler introduced the non-letter 300 series, which was priced around where the Firedome had been, and the New Yorker was coming down in price a bit as well, to distance it from Imperial.

Re: Under $2 in upstate NY [oldfarmer50]

by andre1969 on Thu Dec 04 05:26:33 PST 2008

Can you use a SUV for a lawn mower? I don't see why not. A few years back, I used my pickup truck to pull an old harrow out of the woods. At least I think that's what the thing is called. Big thing that you hook up behind a tractor to plow up a garden or field. Some of them have discs or spikes, but this one had these sickle-shaped things attached to it. It had been back there probably about 30 years, and it was too big to move by hand. I was about to break ground for my garage, and once that was built, it would have hemmed it in, and made it too hard to get anything back there big enough to pull it out. So if I could use a truck to pull farming implements, I guess it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to attach a mower deck to an SUV. :P Oh, I noticed the Shell station on my way in to work (Seabrook, Maryland) is down slightly from $1.879 to $1.859 for 87. Looking online, I see the Shell station up in Laurel I've gone to a few times is at $1.639. I paid $1.659 there on Thanksgiving Day.

Drove one tonight...

by rogeliov on Tue Nov 25 22:49:38 PST 2008

My impressions: First to answer one of the questions, the cargo mat is part of the carpet floor mat/cargo mat option. ;) This is nothing more than a Camry wagon. Drives like a Camry, seats are identical to the Camry, it's a Camry. Having said that, there is nothing wrong with that. I'm sure Toyota will sell every single one they make. It still amazes me that the sales people working at these dealerships don't take the time to learn their product. How long have you known about this vehicle? sad. The guy that showed me the Venza tonight had no clue on how to open the power tail gate or the hood. There is a "full size" tire in the spare tire wheel well but I did not bother to see if it was the same size as the tires on the vehicle. I did notice it had a steel wheel and not an alloy but it sure wasn't a donut size tire. The dash material is the same as on the Prius and on the Scion tC. They call it "rice paper" texture. I'm not joking. The door panels are the same hard plastic now being used by all manufacturers although it does not look as cheap as on the Corolla and the current Camry. About the only thing that semi-excited me was the dashboard layout. The shifter was placed in an optimum position and had the sequential shifter function. Whoever designed the center console ought to be shot. That is the worst design of a center console I've seen in my life. Just trying to move the console cover forward was an attempt in futility and God forbid if you have a drink in the first cupholder adjacent to it. You will decupitate it (pardon the pun!) and make a mess of things. Once I was able to open the console itself, there is plenty of room for storing cd's, etc. One disappointing aspect was an AUX plug to connect an mp3 player, not an Ipod. They do provide a mini plug male to male connector. Big oversight when you can get the actual Ipod connector and plug on the Scion line and not on a 37k dollar Toyota. The back seat feels roomy, plenty of legroom but three full size adults will be elbowing each other after a one hour trip. This vehicle seems to be designed for couples with no kids or as we used to call them here in California in the 80's Dink's (dual income, no kids) or maybe one but no more than two toddlers. The center armrest is the same as on the Camry. Pulls down and there is a covered cupholder box. Nothing fancy. The vehicle feels heavy on the road. I gunned it and it took a couple of seconds for the transmission to downshift and then take off. I got some tire squeal and the traction control kicked in immediately. One thing I liked was the electric power steering didn't feel like the electric power steering on their other vehicles. Toyota must have responded to customer's complaints about the lack of feel. There was actually some resistance as on a sport tuned vehicle but not as tight as say a Bmw 3 series or Infinity G35. Just enough to let you know you are still driving a Camry wagon. Last but not least I still don't like the melted Ford Edge grill look. The rest of the car looks great but that front end just doesn't do it for me. Which begs the question? Which came first? The Venza or the Edge? Toyota had the FTS-X concept for years and it looked like the Edge before there was an Edge. So did Ford copy Toyota? or did Toyota just sat on their laurels before finally going ahead with production? Hmm. And it makes me wonder. This particular Venza was the FWD V6 black with the gray leather, premium package 2, navigation system, and the carpet floor mats/cargo mat option. MSRP was $36,774.00 Oh, one last thing. The salesman was very pushy. All through the test drive he kept going on and on about how they were going to sell all of them at MSRP and that I should buy this one because they were going to be flying off the lot, blah, blah, blah, blah. I thought to myself: "This guy couldn't open the power liftgate even though the button is on the remote and he had the remote the whole time and expects me to just say "I'll take it! at MSRP." yeah, right. I told him with the current economic climate they would start piling up on the lot if they didn't discount them. I said he should get familiar with the internet and look at his competition. Some dealers here have them discounted on their websites already and the vehicles are not there yet.

I'm starting to see more pockets...

by andre1969 on Fri Nov 14 05:28:36 PST 2008

of sub-$2 gas in Maryland. Most of Laurel is in the $1.90-$1.99 range. That's about 7-8 miles north of me. Costco out in Beltsville is $1.91. Out in Millersville (about 15 miles NE, I'm seeing around $1.95-$2.00. Most of the really close places to me (Bowie, Glenn Dale, Greenbelt, Seabrook) are still running $2.15-$2.30. As for thanksgiving, I'm meeting up with my Granddad, and taking him to a big family get-together about 60 miles away. I would've done it even with $4.00/gal gas, but these cheaper prices will be a nice bonus.