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Pontiac history of near extinction.

by gagrice on Sat Apr 25 08:08:26 PDT 2009

1957-1958 Knudsen came to Pontiac with unspoken, but strongly implied orders: make the division something really special in five years, or lose the nameplate. Pontiac had a fine reputation for durability and reliability, but wasn't known for building cars that commanded attention. His strategy, not surprisingly, was to infuse new life into the product. His first major change was to kill the silver streaks, Pontiac's design hallmark. Around since 1935, the "suspenders," as Knudsen called them, were gone by the '57 model. He issued the order days before the vehicles went into volume production. The tooling was in place, the parts and components in production, the press photos had been shot, and newspaper, magazine and showroom ads prepared. He also phased out the signature Indian-head hood ornament in '57. Also in 1957, John DeLorean joined Pontiac to head up advanced engineering. DeLorean, Knudsen and Pontiac chief engineer Pete Estes were a powerful team and inspired the cars that soon would reshape the division. Pontiac unveiled the Bonneville in February 1957 at the Daytona Beach race. Considered an upscale model, it was the first Pontiac to have fuel injection, and was a direct competitor to the Chrysler 300 and DeSoto Golden Adventurer. Pontiac limited production to just 630 vehicles and offered it only in a convertible. The V8 engine was bored out to 370-cubic inch displacement, and achieved 310 SAE gross hp at 4800 rpm and 400 lb.-ft. of torque at 3400 rpm with a top speed of more than 130 mph. It ran 0-60 mph in 8.1 seconds, and a tuned stock model was timed at 144 mph on the Salt Flats. It weighed 4,285 lbs. and cost $4,400. Bonneville became a series in '58, adding a two-door hardtop. Prices dropped to $3,179 for the hardtop and $3,277 for the ragtop. Pontiac built just 400 fuel injected Bonnevilles in '58. The division then dropped fuel injection in '59. Those to me were the best years for Pontiac. My step dad bought a 1961 Tempest while I was in High school. We put more miles on the loaner cars than that Tempest. It was in the shop more than in our driveway. My dad still kept buying Pontiacs. I think they went down hill after the 1960 Bonneville. None since did anything for me.

Re: Article Comments - Sleeping Beauties -- Top 10 Great Barn Finds [KarenS

by Mr_Shiftright on Tue Dec 04 12:21:42 PST 2007

I've found a few lately: 1959 Mercedes 190SL, one owner. Woman had the hubcaps stolen in 1971, got discouraged about driving the car, drove it into her garage and there it sat until 2007. The keys were still in the ignition as she left it. Dusty and dirty with 4 rotted tires, rotted soft top and lots of spiders, but solid as a rock and of course totally original. It was sold to a local dealer and subsequently shipped to the Netherlands for restoration 1925 Maxwell 5P Tourer, right hand drive. Last of the Maxwells. The current owner brought it over from New Zealand 38 years ago. He gave up driving it about 25 years ago and there it sat until now. Very original car. Probably could be made to run, Very solid, no rust. Not very valuable, but interesting. 1929 Ford Model A Postal Truck -- in a chicken house way out on the San Francisco Delta Region. Pretty rough but all there and some of the Post Office markings still visible. Worth restoring? Well, historically yes, as these are rare, but in terms of value, definitely not. 1941 LaSalle Coupe --- yet another chicken coop find in farm country east of San Francisco. Very sexy, long-nosed coupe but it needed everything. A chicken coop is not a great place to store a car for 50+ years. Rodent, water damage. 1947 MGTC -- stored outdoors (groan!) for 35 years under a tarp. Storage fees amounted to $68,000 over the years (I saw the receipts). Owner finally went crazy, estate called me to value it. Weather-beaten, no back seat, chrome rusted, rotted tires, engine stuck----still, worth something. Had interesting hill climb and racing badges on it from Monterey Historic Races, so there's local history there. 1941 Indian Scout motorcycle -- owner passed away many years ago, in the midst of a restoration. The bike was about 1/2 done, not all skillfully. The Scout model is not worth what the Chief is, not by a long shot. We boxed it up and sold it. Got a few more on the line, too. I'll let you know what I find. I did see a Jaguar XK120 alloy body roadster in a loft last year, but the owner knew exactly what he had and he got a whopping good price for it. I wasn't involved in that discovery, darn it.

Re: Road to Industrial Has-Been [rockylee]

by pahefner01 on Sun Apr 22 21:59:28 PDT 2007

What makes it worst lemko, is foreign company's are on capital hill and have a controlling interest in our country. Add to this concern the number of American companies that have sent their computer programming to India. Maritz Inc. is ahead of that curve and has moved most of their programming back to the USA. However, think about the banking and credit industry who have sent their computer programming to India. While the labor is cheaper, most things have to be done three or four times because even though they speak English as a second language there is a language barrier. What concerns me is what they could do to our credit industry having all this control. Also, what about outsourcing customer service call centers to India? How many times do you call someone who says his name is "John" but you know his name is really something of Indian descent because he can't understand what you're saying. Dell is suffering greatly from this problem. They moved their corporate customer service back to the US but left their consumer call centers in India. Try talking to them when you have a problem. My wife and I did and finally wound up returning a $1500 computer to Dell. It can be done even though they say it can't. We have sold way too much control of our country to forein states who probably aren't even our friends. I hope in the next election something can be done about all this "free trade" which isn't free to us at all. I know many people here who would love to get a programmer job or a customer service call center job and they could do the job right the first time. We need leadership who will stop the selling of America.

An old guy's List!

by cptchetco on Sun Mar 25 00:53:19 PDT 2007

First car 1938 Chev 2door Given me by the next door neighbor when I was 14. He bought it unrunning for the tires and didn't think I'd do anything with it. Had it running in 3 hours but took the next 2 weeks to get the brakes functional. Used to drive it on my grandfather's farm. One winter, I forgot to drain it and it froze and and broke the block. 1937 Chev 4dr Dad bought it for me for $75 when I turned 16. Had to pay him back. It was OK! but had the "knee action" front suspension, and went loping down the road hysterically when you hit a bump 1942 Ford 6 cyl coupe. Didn't run, but it was a Ford. Put in a hot Flathead V8, which would turn 97.3 in a quarter mile. Not bad in 1957. Had some preexisting body damage, and burned valves like a woodstove burns pine. Nicknamed "the Popcorn Machine" by friends. Sold it after blowing the engine in a stoplight drag. 1941 Ford Coupe. Terrific condition drove it several years, all over Cal, Or & WA. 1941 Plymouth, Paid $25. It ran well, but was gutlessl sold it for $150 1941 Chev Convert, Engine was frozen up and it was given to me. Took out the engine, but sold it before proceeding. Made a couple of bucks. 1947 Indian Bonneville. Pd $75 for it all in pieces. Had it assembled enough to run, but lacked the gas tank, so had a jury rigged 1 gallon can. A collector spotted me one day and followed me to work. Paid me $750. 1958 1959 Ford Galaxie 500 Convertibel. My first good car. Purchased in 1960 from Hertz rental. Had the 292, but was reasonably quick and got 20mpg on 30 cent gas. 1961 VW First Brand new car. Liked it a lot, lost it in my first divorce, 1941 Nash (1962)A bit of a step back, but divorces cause such things. Old and beautiful. The rear seats folded into the trunk making beds you could leave in place all the time. It was a lot of fun picking a girl up at her place for a first date and seeing their reaction when you opened the door for them and the red interior lights came on. 1960 Falcon (1963) "THe Tin Tank" It went everywhere without a missed beat. Carried 6 people; never less than 31 mpg. An amazingly reliable car. The use I gave it would destroy nearly car made now and most SUVs 1966 Mustang Conver 6 cyl loaded with options. A beautiful, reliable and economical 30mpg car. Sold it to my Dad who sold it to my Sis who sold it to my Mom who sold it to my Brother who wrecked it in 1984, and got twice the original purchase price from the insurance company. 1968 Mercury Montego 302 V8. Competent family car; decent economy. Sold it after the drum brakes faded in a panic stop on the freeway. 1972 Mustang Convertable 351 CJ Brand new in Jan '72 with all the performance options. I still have this car and it still has the original paint. Drove the car near 200,000 miles before rebuilding the engine. With my engineer son doing most of the wrench turning and a Ford specialized speed shop doing the rest, it cost $1000 more to rebuild the engine in 2005 than the car cost new. Prior to the engine rebuild, the only repairs to the car were the carburater, water pump and several clutches. My wife didn't like low on the 4 speed, (371 axel ratio) but loved to drive the car; so she started out in second all the time so we went through a lot of clutches. She could start out from a dead stop on a San Francisco hill in second gear. 1977 Subaru Without question the worst car I have ever owned. Purchased new I traded it with 58,000 miles and there was more wrong with it than it was worth. Jumped out of 3rd gear when you applied power. The windshield wipers would not clear snow from the windsheild. Three of 4 quarter shaft bearings were shot. Engine ran OK, but this little tin box only managed 17 mpg. 1979 Thunderbird. Quietest car I've ever owned. It got 19 mpg with the AC, Auto Trans etc at 75 mph. Put 127k miles on it without a single repair. Sold it 1985 to a friend who drove it at least another 3 years. Needless to say, I don't think much of a Subaru. 1984 THunderbird A stripped model; Only one I have ever seen with roll up windows. COmpetent car; drove it 120,000 in Alaska with only one minor repair to the transmission, a $57 sensor. 1984 BroncoII (1989) Excellent vehicle for Alaska. Much more reliable and capable than the contemporary Subarus. It always started even at 30 below. About 18 mpg, lacked adequate passing power above 55 mph, but was unstoppable in adverse conditions. 1989 Mustang Convert 5L 5spd Sport option (1990) Great car put 120k without a repair; 24 mpg as long as I kept my foot out of it, which was hard to do. Very quick and agile, but light in the rear if pavement was slippery. Sold it to my son's best friend for $2000 less than I had paid 5 years and 120,000 miles earlier. He still has the car and loves it. Has had it restored. 1991 Mercury tracer. (new)I was comuting 120 miles per day and needed max economy so bought a stripped little sedan. It got 40 mpg all the time. At first the cornering was weak, but I changed out the tires and made a sports car out of it. Handling was then superb along with the mileage. Sold it with over 150k without a single problem other than the original tires. 1979 Ranchero Old and battered, but useful in my business. Sold it to a fellow who restored it. 1985 Bronco II (1999) Yep another one, for the business mainly to tow boats around the yard. It had 180k on it, and several times I drove it through the mountains during winter. My new puppy ate the interior, and it wasn't worth fixing, so I pocketed the 800 insurance check. When I sold the business, it was still hauling boats. It pulled a 25,000# boat on a trailer up the ramp, when the owner's Chev 3500 PU wouldn't. 1988 Bronco II (2006) Since so much of what I do involves needing 4WD, towing 3,000# or more and leaving the vehicle unattended in a harbor or trailhead, it would be silly to have an expensive looking vehicle. So I went back to reliability and off road capacity. Found a good '88 for $2,000 last June. It is my principle vehicle and gets 23 mpg most of the time, 24 when I drove to Mexico and back last January. Prior owner was a kid who had way too large a tire for the gearing; you could never get it into 5th. Changed them. Had a minus 9 night in December. It started without a whimper next AM. Well that's it. I now have my old Mustang and my new old Bronco II. Based on driving and riding in many many other cars, I'm sweet. In my esperience, Ford products have been the best all around vehicles considering cost and satisfaction. I'm not luxury oriented, though many of my friends are, and for years traveled on business ane rented nearly every kind of car imaginable; Being single, I have driven many girl friends cars of all makes. Toyotas and Hondas in general deserve their reputation, though they aren't flawless. Nissan, Mitsubishi and Subaru are not equal in quality

I do!

by lilbluewgn02 on Mon Jun 13 17:49:15 PDT 2005

OK, guys, the Capitol Hill location is the winner...we will be perusing the National Museum of the American Indian...HOW..you ask? Ha Ha Ha i made a joke!!! That is a short walk to dinner from there...Wed. 6/22 at 6PM. HOW will I recognize you HA HA HA; Bob is the one with the helmet and juice is the one with the cat-dog!...see you guys(and gals) soon...Michael already has his dinner order picked out. Man, I'm psyched to finally meet youse guys (sniffle, sniffle). Serge

4wd low

by 6spdtl on Sat Mar 05 16:42:29 PST 2005

I just love people discussing about their 4wd low when none of them has used it in their life for what it is for! It just goes on to prove how gullible and dumb (though large and important to a car company)the average truck buyer IS. The existance of 4wd low is for going down steep inclines (read rubicon type), it lets the vehicle maintain a crawling speed to avoid losing control or your brakes. You never need it for anything more, if you have used it for something else HERE YOUR SIGN: HEY BUBBA MAKE SURE YOU PUT THA TRUCK ON LOW TO GO UP THER HILL OR TO PULL OUT OF THER SNOW BANK. SURE GOMER HUH HUH. Just like 90% of truck owners never put more than a couple of pieces of plywood in the back or ever take their truck further than a gravel road less then 1% ever use low range and we can see by the comments around here even those that use it don't know what its really for!!!! Hondas real problem selling this truck will not be because it is not by far the best vehicle of its type ever made, but because the target consumer is just too dumb to even understand it. Its like trying to explain a toilet to a indian from the amazon that has never even used a latrine:)