Locate an Auto Repair Shop in Clear, Alaska

Thanks for the reply Dennis. I'm still thinking there has to be some kind of "programming flaw", the old "garbage in garbage out" scenario. Again, I have no idea how 'code' is derived in vehicles but I do know a bit about computers and coding itself. You're making the assumption that the ROM code is "flawless". I have seen really weird things happen with low level code, "programming errors" that are so subtle they are nearly impossible to find. They are nearly impossible to reproduce because the confluence of circustances that cause them are so obscure. It might be an obscure piece of code that runs but whoever coded used a case statement that doesn't address that particular condition, or there is a missing return or something, no error handling and the code thread falls through executing some other instructions out of sequence that screws up something else, which in turn screws something else up until the BCM is hozed. Maybe when the ROM was being written somebody coded an incorrect label and the code thread shifts to some nonreadable data area and the BCM is hozed. Right from the get-go these trucks had weird electrical issues. Here's an example, I've heard similar storied from a couple of other owners... When I got the truck I wanted to make sure the door key worked. I tried it in the lock and the horn started to 'toot' lightly as the door unlocked. A few seconds later it started the "somebody is stealing me!" scream. I hit the panic button and it stopped. Kind of shaking my head I looked at the GM sales reps, and asked what the truck was doing. Sheepishly they just kind of shrugged like, "Ummmm, that's the new... ahhh, horn-test system I guess?" They had no clue, we kind of figured it was some kind of "new thing" that would be explained in the manual. Of course there was nothing, so maybe it was something "undocumented"? Perhaps, but my guess is it was the first sign of some weird programming error. The more I think about it, the more I have to think the majority of these problems have to be computer and/or code ("programming code") related. The reason I think this is because some of the weird electrical stuff would be hard to explain if it was simply 'physical' problems like frayed or shorted wires. Things like that don't usually "get better" or heal themselves, but computers can and do. With a computer a weird set of circumstances and poorly written code can can screw them up and likewise a weird set of circumstances (disconnecting battery leads, putting the key in the ignition at the right time, turning on the lights, some kind of sequence of inputs) can heal (reinitialize/clear) them. How else can some of the weird stuff be explained like turning on the radio locks the doors or whatever. I guess it could be physical like shorted wiring, but it sure as heck sounds like poorly written process control code. Again, I'll be the first to say I may be completely off base and this stuff and what I say is impossible, but for a moment let's say it is possible... Say some highschool dropout at GM was writing the BCM control code and was still stoned from lunch and kind of forgot a return instruction before sending the code off to be burned as ROM into 16 million BCMs. Everything looks ok and the problem doesn't get discovered until that particular piece of code gets executed, something like, the lights have to be off, the radio on and the air conditioning on when the truck is turned off and the key left in the ignition with the dome light left on for over 20 minutes. Maybe that piece of code gets executed when the BCM realizes the dome light is still on and the code is supposed to turn it off. It does, but rather than return to wherever it is supposed to go, the thread falls through into "the twilight zone". Somewhere along the way it turns power into the drivers window relay and shorts out the little chip in the drivers window/fob circuit. This causes the battery to drain and with the low voltage fries something else when the key is put back in the ignition and the BCM fully powers up. Like I say, just some weird confluence of circumstances that happens every 6 weeks to 6 years. In the mean time, add in the poor grounds and wiring connectors and... you have a nightmare to solve. Let's say that scenario has even a grain of truth. What is the "proper fix"? Troubleshoot and locate the obscure problem in the code, do all the testing and debugging, then what? Produce new BCMs with the corrected ROM code? Recall all the existing BCMs in all the trucks? And if the code is written so crappy in one place, what's not to say there may be other code glitches that haven't been found and would be burned into the new BCM ROM anyway? For so relatively few customers? (The Colorados/Canyons were not big sellers). Factor in a company going bankrupt on top of this, would you elect to have a recall? Incurr all this expense? Forget it, just donate to Obama and get tax money to stay in business instead of relying on satisfied customers. We're back in business again, just sweep the Colorados under the rug except for the lucrative repair money... The guy that programmed the Colorado BCM was probably promoted to doing the electrical system on the Volt... Anyway, that's my rambling thoughts. I guess it really doesn't matter since GM is obviously not going to address the reoccuring problem that doesn't exist. It really would be interesting if there ever was a definitive answer but I doubt it will ever be determined for sure.

Yes, snaproll1, you are somewhat correct in that there is an area in vehicle computers that is called "volatile ram". This area stores the engine or body code used to help troubleshoot problems. This area is also used to store data used in "learning curves" for engines especially. For instance, the engine computer stores data it uses to know how much "fuel trim" is needed for a particular vehicle. It learns this by recording how much extra (or less), fuel is needed beyond the programming amount to make the exhaust exactly 14.7 to 1 oxygen to fuel mixture. Transmission computers use this area also to learn smooth shift patterns in much the same way. Before 1996 (OBDII), when someone disconnected the battery. The codes and the small amount of learning data were lost. A few drives and restarts re-established the learning curves. Now with OBDII and beyond, the technician has to use a reader to clear and remove learning curves (fuel trim, shift data, etc), from the ECM or Body computer. Usually by clearing the codes by a reader it also flushes the learned data also. We always caution the customer that your vehicle may perform slightly different for a couple hours or less after clearing codes. Most are unable to notice a difference though. Every time you turn off your vehicle (as of yet), the computers shut down except for this small kept alive memory. When you turn the key back on, the computers have to initalize and start reading the burned in instructions to execute from ROM. Therefore, (as of now), it would be virtually impossible to execute wrong code including a virus or for the existing computer instructions to get corrupted. Remember, the instructions are contained in ROM or "Read Only Memory". Yes the computers look at the RAM area for data that is contained there but no computer instructions are in this area. With PC's and Laptops, this is a totally different story. When you turn your computer on, the first thing the processor does is to read BIOS for the instructions to access the hard drive. Once it starts reading the hard drive, it is picking up computer instructions on how to execute Win98, WinXP, Win7, or a host of other operating systems that you as a user can install on the hard drive. This is where a VIRUS loves to be. Malicious code can be written to a hard drive that replicates itself on CDROMS, FLOPPY drives, Memory sticks, Internet programs, and etc. This code can be carried to other computers and cause the new computer to write these instructions on it's hard drive and continually replicate itself to other computers. Yes, a trained technician can FLASH a new ROM onto a vehicle engine computer or body computer. However, this is only allowed if there is an UPDATE available from the manufacturer and it takes special tools and usually a $1800 a year fee to do these operations. So dealerships are usually the only ones that are able to do this. There are also safeguards when programming that checks the "Checksum" at the end of programming to see if the code installed matches exactly; otherwise a message pops up that says "Programming Unsucessful". When I had my window/lock problem, all the other functions on the body computer for my Colorado worked perfectly. The radio would turn off when the doors were opened. The dome light would go off at night when the key was inserted, and all the seatbelts, low fuel, alarms, and etc worked flawlessly. The only thing that didn't was the drivers door window, and the locks. The parking lights would flash with the fob but no lock activation occured. This told me that the body computer was acting normally and was intact. Yes Murphy's law is still possible. The body computer could get corrupted. But simply a turn off of the vehicle and a restart would re-initalize the computer sequences and would be ok again. If you noticed, quite a few people tried disconnecting the batteries and etc and it didn't fix the problem. Some said it did and others said it did not help. With all this said, I am only human and maybe someone can show me that I am all wrong. If so, I am happy with that also. Catch you later, Dennis

What you are experiencing is a computer, or sensor failure. The bands aren't missing, and if the codes where pulled, they didnt write them down. Sounds like a bunch of inexperienced techs. When the computer gets mixed signals, it goes into "limp mode" put the trans in a gear, usually 3rd, so you can get to a dealer. If you clear the codes and it shifts fine through the gears, then goes into limp mode, I would say you have a problem with a shift solenoid, or speed sensor, or something like that. if the speed sensors are not functioning properly the will make the computer think it is broke. And most shops, from my experience will try to sell you a transmission, no matter what is wrong.

Let me know when you actually find a ZL-1 at a dealership, and let me know how much they're discounting it. Yeah, you do that. Sheesh. Also..what's up with Kia reliability in that J.D. Powers chart? All ribbing aside...that chart just shows how close all the manufacturers are now. If I had a new car with 1.9 problems instead of 1.3, I don't think I'd be looking to trade it in. Those numbers wouldn't sway me to buying a car built in another country, or one I didn't like as much, just because a survey said its parent company had only 1.3 problems per new car instead of 1.9. Don't know their methods, but I think it's clear Powers won't rely only on subscribers :) .

I also purchased a 2012 2WD EX at Poway Honda! Dec 29, 2011 Urban Titanium $24,310 car price (895 off MSRP of $25,205) and $26500 OTD. I also had the mud flaps, wheel locks and cargo tray included, I also had them throw in free all weather mats because there was a blemish in the plastic in front. Blemish was fixed by poway honda though. $3000+ for the corolla trade in is not too shabby i suppose. I did get screwed on the financing though, I was led to believe that I will get Honda Financing with a Honda rate of 3.29%. But I ended up getting financing from a bank I haven't even heard of! (Fifth Third Bank). I did get the same rate but, there are bunch of horror stories all over the net of this bank and their loans. There are no local fifth third banks here and I cannot pay on their website. I had to use my bank's ACH to pay my first payment (Although someone on yahoo answers mentioned that their ACH payment was rejected...I haven't gotten a rejection yet, I'll have to call Fifth third bank to make sure my payment cleared). They won't allow me to refinance with Honda... Darn Poway Honda! I don't reccomend them for their shady financing. The sales people were real nice, I suppose I just got screwed by the financing people. If you have to finance from Poway Honda make sure you get Honda Financing, or use your own bank!