Letters to the Editors
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Subject: Curiosity about your website's business model
From: R. & J. Klinger

My wife and I are just curious how you are able to offer this great service to car buyers. We pay nothing, so we assume your advertisers carry the ball. Can you please explain? Also, are you influenced by the manufacturers at all?

Yep, accessing Edmunds.com for information is free. All that is required of you is time. Edmunds supports itself through advertising, business partnerships, the licensing of content and the selling of automotive data. Unlike other online services that post suggested retail values, our TMV^® pricing is determined by what other consumers are paying. As for influence, having automaker advertising does allow for that possibility. However, our editorial staff remains dedicated toward providing accurate and unbiased reviews and information. If you doubt that, allow us to point you to a multitude of Edmunds' negative vehicle reviews that have caused many an auto-exec's undergarments to bunch up. — Ed.


Subject: Neighborhood electric cars
From: M. DuVernois

Honestly all I can see these things doing (just like that "Ginger" motorized scooter) is reducing how much people walk. Now people have a "feel-good" electric car (at 2-3 times the price of a serviceable used car) to drive down the block. Oh boy! What about a bicycle or two feet? And replace car usage? How could such a small vehicle replace the Land Cruiser, ML430, or Expedition when going to the Piggly-Wiggly for a liter of bottled water?


Subject: Jaguar X-Type reviews
From: J. Rappaport

As a thoroughly disgusted owner of a 3.0 X-Type, I think your reviews (both of them) are right on. Even though you tried to soften the criticism with some background rationalization that both cars were apparently pre-production, rest assured that the production vehicles are no better.

My car was supposedly built in the third month of production and has the following problems:

The interior is an incredible example of poor workmanship. At least four or five areas have differing materials that meet with a fit like a disease. The dash rattles incessantly and the plastic "faux wood" goes "snap crackle pop" in a maddening fashion. My mother's 10-year-old Taurus with 104,000 miles on the clock is a quieter car.

The automatic climate control cannot keep up with the sun here in South Florida, and every time the outside temperature exceeds 84 degrees everyone in the car breaks out in a sweat, staining that wonderful Connoly Leather. The front suspension squeaks like an old bedspring over minor dips in the road and the front drivetrain snaps loudly on sharp left turns. The trunk has opened on it's own on several occasions during hard stops, leading to a loud crash and a surprising view out the rear-view mirror.

The worst part of the whole picture is that the dealer has been unable to correct any of the major issues with the car. The last time in, after they had the car for seven days, I was told to pick it up because "it is as good as it gets" (stated cavalierly by the service writer). I subsequently spent nearly two hours with a Jaguar Factory rep and was told likewise, however much more politely and sympathetically. I wonder what Jaguar Credit would say if I sent them half my payment with a note attached that read, "Sorry...this is as good as it gets."


Subject: 2002 Midsize SUV Comparo
From: C. Stowe

I enjoyed reading your 2002 Mid SUV comparison. As someone who reads your site almost daily and is currently in the market for a Midsize SUV I poured through it with gusto. As is usual for your editorial staff, you presented everything in a clear and concise manner and gave your readers a fair view of the competitors. But I have to call you on something:

You compared the Nissan Pathfinder in (base) SE trim, with the Ford Explorer in (loaded) Limited trim. While I realize that certain cars are available in only certain trim levels during the time of your test, you penalized the Pathfinder SE for not having items that are standard or optional on the LE model (which is more comparable to the Limited). Some of these items are: auto 4WD, power seats and side airbags. In fact, in your "Second Opinions" section the auto 4WD feature is mentioned over and over again for not being available when it is standard on the LE. If you want a real comparison, compare the Explorer XLT with the Pathfinder SE, or compare the Limited with the LE. Your choices for this test made it impossible for the Pathfinder to win, in fact, it is a true testament to how good the Pathfinder actually is that it still beat everybody else, even in strippo trim.

I don't know why you would do this, perhaps your post 9/11 patriotism prompted you to stack the deck in favor of the less-reliable-but-by-God-American Ford, perhaps you got a good deal on your long-termer and this is the quid pro quo, or perhaps you couldn't deal with giving top honors to the long-in-the-tooth-but-still-champ Pathfinder, again.

Sorry. But that is the way it is.

Our editorial staff does not "stack the deck" in order to achieve a pre-decided winner. We conduct these tests as objectively and fairly as we can. It is not always possible to get the exact trim levels we want. That said, it's unlikely that a Pathfinder LE would have made enough of a difference to change the final rankings. Its second-place final score was considerably below the Explorer's. The upgraded amenities would have helped a bit, but the LE would still be lacking key features, such as a third-row seat, a rollover protection system and a reverse parking system. And don't forget that our comparison test formula takes price into account. If we'd gotten an LE, it would have made up ground in the "features" department, but given much of that ground back to the Explorer in the "price" scoring. — Ed.


Subject: Elantra Confusion
From: D. Benoit

I have been following each monthly report on your long-term Hyundai Elantra for the past year. When the vehicle was introduced to your stable of worthy testers last year, I am sure that the length of stay was to be 2 years. Suddenly, half-way through it's stay I read in this months report that you will be terminating it's position after only 1 year!!!!!! I then went back and re-read the introduction and noticed that it has been modified and states the new 1 year stay information. I have to be honest and say that I am deeply upset over this change (and apparent cover-up). It makes me doubt the validity of your organization. Can you please explain to me 1) why you decided to keep the Elantra for only 1 year, and 2) Why you didn't admit to this change in plan. From all reports it seems as though the Elantra has been a wonderful car, free of any annoyances, and a great travel companion. I love visiting your website daily and would hate for this to change my otherwise high opinion of your offerings.

You are correct that we have shortened our long-term loan period from two years to one. This is due primarily to the vast amount of new product being released by the automakers on an annual basis. With our previous two-year program, we completely regenerated the fleet once every 24 months. By cutting the loan time in half, we can drive, (expose our readers to) far more cars every 12 months. Of course, we do lose something in terms of monitoring reliability and service experiences for a 24-month period, but we feel that featuring a wider variety of cars for a shorter duration better serves the Edmunds.com reader. Besides, we've found that problematic cars are apparent within the first few months of ownership, and after one year we've pretty much made up our minds about how we feel toward a particular long-term vehicle.

The Hyundai Elantra you mentioned is a perfect example. The car has been flawless during its 12 months in our fleet, and we have no reason to believe it won't continue to be a dependable and even fun form of transportation for the next lucky owner.


Subject: RE: Confessions of a Car Salesman article
From: Name withheld

My husband is a car salesman.

Sadly, the account given in the article "Confessions of a Car Salesman" barely touches the surface of that "business."

Unfortunately, the character of the people (in all levels) on car lots diminishes significantly with time. My husband has been on several car lots now for over fifteen years and considers himself something similar to a "soldier" when he leaves for work. In other words, he is going up against the naive general public. The pressure to "sell, sell, sell" becomes like a war game, and nothing becomes more important than making those sales. Nothing. Including family.

According to my husband, most of his deals take less than four hours. In order to make a sale, in those four hours, he becomes someone I don't even know. I say this because I've spoken to and been in the presence of him during a sale.

The article didn't mention how car dealers control their salespeople's personal lives to the point of making them believe even their days off are not their own. Furthermore, the shift schedules are designed in such a way as to completely control and deplete their energy. No two days are the same, certainly no two weeks are the same. Even the food they eat and where they eat is controlled. Usually they eat standing up, ready to pounce on a "guest."

One last thing: If a wife of a car salesman protests in any way, she is "dealt" with. I've been "dealt" with twice, so I know this is a sad fact. I advised my husband to seek another job, they found out about it and have subsequently destroyed our marriage. Long story, but suffice it to say, it's been a long daunting experience. I truly believe there is no other business that is like the car business in that it has just about every negative imaginable.

Reading this article has helped in a strange way. Thanks for publishing it.


Subject: Jan 2002 letters to editor
From: B. Dors

One of the captions you wrote on the Jan 2002 letters to editor section read the following:

"Our Most Wanted choices didn't have enough American cars for some. These people think we should do a better job of supporting the U.S. Does this mean we can't buy a Honda Odyssey built in Ohio? Does it mean we should buy a Ford Focus...even if it is built in Mexico? We're confused."

This is incredibly insulting. I live in Ohio, and though I am happy that some Ohioans are employed by Honda, in the end these salaries are insubstantial when compared to the entire labor involved in running an auto manufacturing company. The executives and engineers back in Japan earn far more money for the labor they put into producing a Honda than anyone working an impact wrench. And in the end, where do the profits go? Straight over to Japan.

I won't get into where the parts are manufactured, but I'd guess the majority is shipped from overseas.

We erred in that January response. The Odyssey is assembled in Ontario, Canada. Only the van's engine is built in Ohio. However, thousands of Civics and Accords are built in Ohio every year. The Accord's overseas parts content is about 20 percent. — Ed


Subject: "Most Wanted"
From: S. Grooms

One of your picks really surprises me, the Escape/Tribute in the category of "small SUVs." You are surely aware of the dreadful quality and reliability issues with those cars. You must know about the lawsuits and all the complaints filed with the national highway authorities. The release of the Escape and Tribute has been a huge black eye suffered by Ford and Mazda. I used to read the Edmunds boards for those cars but gave it up because it was such painful stuff to read.

I can only conclude that quality and reliability have nothing to do with your editorial picks. Strange.

We've had a 2001 Mazda Tribute ES-V6 in our long-term test fleet for more than a year. While it hasn't been trouble-free, it hasn't had any major catastrophes, either. — Ed.


Subject: thanks - your site helped quite a bit
From: C. Corey

I just wanted to say "Thanks!" for all the invaluable information contained on the Edmunds web site. I typically use your site just to read some reviews or catch up on what's going on in the automotive world. But recently my wife and I decided to take advantage of a great offer and we bought a new Dodge Durango. We used your site to compare the dealer's offer to the TMV. We also reviewed the forums to see what the "hot buzz" issues were with the model we were considering buying.

But one of the best uses of your site was an evaluation of the trade-in value for our truck. We owned a Ford Ranger and we entered our vehicle details into your used car evaluator to come up with an idea of the trade-in value, private party selling price and dealer retail price. We went to the dealer armed with this information and we pulled it out after the dealer's initial offer (which was $2,500 less than your published trade-in value). I wish I could have taken a picture of the salesman's face when I pulled out my printout from Edmunds.com that showed that their trade-in offer was quite "weak."

We were able to successfully negotiate upward from there to a trade-in price we were happy with. I wanted to pass along that the salesman continually told us that the prices on "the Internet sites are always high." We stuck to our guns however and after several rounds of "I need to go to the back to talk to my manager," we made the deal.

Thanks for all the great info. It's hard to imagine how one would go about buying a car without it. We also read through your 10 Steps to Buying a New Car before we even stepped foot onto the dealer lot. Again, a good primer for anyone who likes to feel in control when they head out the door to buy a car.


Subject: Website pricing
From: B. Corwin

You know you think you are doing the public a service by "informing" them on how to buy a car however you are incorrect. I am a Chrysler sales person and you seriously are doing a bad thing. You cause more problems than you do help, I mean I am sorry for singling you out, but you guys are very misinformed. You stereotype all car sales people as being sleazy money grabbers. I am a very educated young man, I am a very honest person. On many occasions I have told people my honest opinions on cars, as well.

As far as your pricing information, you need to get better resources. You are way off. I have read the disclaimers about destination and advertising being left off but you guys still aren't close. You show almost $2000 mark up on a new Jeep Wrangler Sport. Yeah I wish!!! No wonder why people think we "rip people off." You do not correctly inform them.

I want to know one thing? Do you work for free? No you don't, I didn't think so. Stop interfering in something that isn't your business. You seriously need to put some faith in people, not all car dealers are out to make a killing on every car. I am not alone in my beliefs, so as I said put some faith in people. I don't treat my job as a game, so don't call buying a car "Playing the game."


Subject: Comparison test request
From: R. Henderson

Love your site. I check it out daily to see road tests and get other info about new and used cars. My wife and I will be in the market for a new compact car in the next year or so and I'd appreciate seeing a remake of the compact sedan comparison you did in 2000, especially since the Corolla, Civic and Elantra have been upgraded since then. You may be way ahead of me on this one, too, but it would be cool to see a compact hatchback comparison test as well, using the Elantra GT, the Vibe, the Matrix, the ZX5 and the Protege5 (plus any others I may have missed). Thanks and keep up the good work.

A four-door hatchback test will be appearing in the next couple months. We plan to do an economy sedan comparison later this year. — Ed.


Subject: American Exotics Test 2000
From: T. Knight

Hey guys, I've watched the Test many times and its just great. Good Job Just wondering if you guys were planning on doing another any time soon. Thanks for the great info!

We'd love to. How about a 2003 Chevrolet Corvette Z06 (winner of the 2000 test), an all-new 2003 Dodge Viper and a 2003 Ford GT40? We can smell the burned rubber already. — Ed.


Subject: Second thoughts about Hybrid Cars!
From: T. Ludwig

I was interested that Honda is bringing out a Hybrid Civic later this year, but now I am not sure if I would buy it or the Toyota Prius. I called my local Honda, but it may have been the Toyota dealer and asked how much it would cost to replace the electric engine and the battery pack in the Insight or Prius (can't remember which dealer though). Ouch! The parts department told me, even with about an 8-year/100,000-mile warranty, that the battery pack would cost about $6,500 and the electric motor about $4,500, parts cost only!

It makes me think twice about getting the Hybrid cars, as you also state they are pretty anemic in power, which is needed if you want to take them into the mountains outside of Denver here. I am going back to my original choice of the Golf TDI. My friend recently purchased a Jetta TDI and is getting amazing mileage. He made a trip from Denver to Rockford, IL and was traveling about 90 mph, or above at some points. Equipped with an automatic he was able to average 40 mpg overall. I don't think any hybrid vehicle could sustain those speeds and achieve that good of mileage.

Your point is interesting, and it is a factor to consider. However, are you planning on keeping this car more than eight years or putting on more than 100,000 miles? Indeed, that is the warranty coverage period for the hybrid components on the Prius. You'd only have to worry about potential replacement after that point. A Toyota spokesperson we talked to said the current replacement cost for the Prius' battery back is about $3,000. He also pointed out that this is the price now. Eight years from now, the replacement cost — due to improvements in manufacturing and additional hybrid sales — might drop considerably. As for a hybrid versus a VW TDI car, the TDI would certainly be a benefit in Denver's mile-high altitude because of its turbocharger. However, there's no way it could match the Prius' squeaky-clean SULEV rating. — Ed.