Letters to the Editors
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Subject: Price in car reviews
From: R. Evans

I truly enjoy the reviews and comparisons. I do wish, however, that price and reliability would be factored more into selecting the winners. For example, an Audi A4 or BMW 330 costs $38,000 - $44,000 at the local dealership when equipped the same as a $31,000 Acura TL S-Type (and they will sell far below MSRP.)

The German dealers laugh off the Edmunds price quotes and say that the website is wrong. Then they get honest enough to say, "That's not what they go for on the market." This gouging by Audi & BMW has been consistent at 4 different dealerships, which means that I'll maybe buy online one day.

In any case, when price and reliability are factored in, there is absolutely no comparison. Believe me, I have tried to justify the price difference to my wife. Unfortunately, she has more common sense than me. Much more money for less car, with lower reliability does not please her, and I agree.

I absolutely love certain German vehicles, and I savor it when my dream car comes out on top. But I cannot help but wonder what objective weighting system is used to calculate value for the dollar. A household's second largest investment must be made based on numbers and reality, not emotion.

We agree. That's why the $33,710 TL Type-S beat the $39,735 3 Series in our last Entry-Level Luxury Sedan Comparison Test. — Ed.


Subject: (Car Buying)
From: R. Stephens

Just a quick question. When comparing your price estimates for a 1999 Subaru Legacy Wagon Brighton, your trade-in price is $8500 while Kelly Blue Book is $10,600. I noticed your values were much lower on other cars too. How come and whose prices should I use when negotiating a price? Thanks.

Please keep in mind that unlike the MSRP and invoice price for new vehicles — which are published by the manufacturers and accordingly are "real" values, there is no single "price" for a used vehicle, since in each case the price results from a unique negotiation for a unique vehicle.

Thus, the Edmunds.com True Market Value® is an estimate of the average price for a particular vehicle; you can expect that in many instances, the vehicle will sell for significantly more or significantly less than this average, and you can also expect that other pricing guides will arrive at a different estimate of this average.

In regards to Kelley pricing, we've found that our trade-in prices are generally higher than Kelley's, while our retail prices are generally lower (the opposite of what you found). For more on the differences between Kelley and Edmunds.com prices, check out our What is the Kelley Blue Book Price? story. —Ed.


Subject: Jeep Liberty Review
From: A. French

I felt that your Jeep Liberty review missed the mark in many ways, as well as your small SUV of the year winner. This vehicle actually does what the category was intended to do — be able to go places that a regular car can't go, not be a plush suburban comfort joy ride. To minus the vehicle because it doesn't ride as smoothly as the competition is really not a negative for someone that really wants a true SUV.

Why would you want an SUV to drive like a boring, slow sedan? That is supposed to be the fun of an SUV, that you aren't bored to death driving it. If you want to get an SUV with a smooth car-like ride get a luxury "SUV" like the Mercedes ML320. That is what makes the Liberty great, that it rides comfortably and yet feels like it needs to go off-roading. Please consider this in the future for your SUV awards in this category and not those other grocery-getting boring car-like rides. Let those grocery getters go back to their station wagons and leave the SUVs for what they really should be doing.

You're absolutely right. Someone who wants a small SUV to go off-roading in would do well with a Liberty. Problem is, most folks just want something that can get them home from work in 6 inches of snow. For that purpose, the Liberty is overkill. And on dry pavement, where most people drive most of the time, the Liberty takes a nosedive in terms of ride quality, handling and fuel economy. We feel a better all-around choice is the Ford Escape or its twin, the Mazda Tribute. — Ed.


Subject: Ranting about SUV's
From: G. Westreich

I'm not sure precisely what a craw is or where it's located, but there's no doubt that many people have SUV's stuck firmly in theirs somewhere. The usual complaint is that SUV's are wasteful, gas-guzzling environmentally disastrous fashion statements. This objection is sometimes qualified, as you did in answer to a letter last month, by the statement that SUV's are OK if used for off roading, but otherwise an affront to right thinking people everywhere.

While there's some truth in these objections, what's curious to me is how rarely they're made about other types of vehicles to which they equally apply. Why don't people get all hot and bothered about fashion forward pickups, sports cars and luxury vehicles that are just as wasteful, gas guzzling and environmentally harmful? I don't recall ever reading an objection in Edmunds to seeing high-powered sporting machines on L.A. city streets, rather than on race tracks where their true potential can be fully exploited.

To take one example, the 2002 Porsche Turbo uses more fuel than a 2002 Chevy Trailblazer (17 mpg vs. 18 according to the EPA) and belches out more greenhouse gasses (10.8 tons per year vs. 10.7). They're both 4WD vehicles sold largely for their looks and the image they impart (since few will use them as they are capable), only the Chevy SUV is also a practical family vehicle that mere mortals can afford.

OK, OK so there aren't enough Turbos around to really cause any damage; but what about pickups? These things are the best selling vehicles in the country, and based on the number of empty beds I see on the road, purchased largely for their looks and subjective appeal. But even the technologically advanced Toyota Tundra 4WD gets a mere 15 mpg, and contributes an annual 12.3 tons of greenhouse gas to the atmosphere, some 15% more pollution than the reviled Trailblazer. Why aren't people up in arms about pickup trucks (unless of course they're confined to the farm or construction site)?

Most of us choose our vehicles at least partly based on the way they look and the status they provide. A Lexus ES 300 doesn't really do anything that a Camry won't, but thousands choose the more expensive vehicle and no objections are raised. Likewise, few seek out the most economical, least polluting cars available (as automakers constantly point out, there are many high mpg vehicles on the market, and few takers), yet I haven't heard many complaints about people choosing, say a 16 mpg M5 over its 24 mpg 525i counterpart. To the contrary, the driver of the more fashionable, more wasteful and more polluting vehicle is generally also more admired.

So precisely what is it about SUV's that raises so many hackles that are otherwise left undisturbed by other equally irresponsible vehicles? You've got me, but I suspect the answer is more likely to be provided by sociologists than automotive reviewers.


Subject: THANK YOU!
From: T. Kearny

I just wanted to sincerely thank you for your fine automotive site. I am fairly young and have only owned three cars. The first was my wonderfully memorable shop-queen, the '86 Plymouth Turismo/Duster (depending on where on the car you looked). Then I moved up to my mom's hand-me-down '99 Altima.

For the past two years, I've been teaching myself about cars and constantly reading everything on your site; to the point that now my friends come and ask ME for auto advice. Thanks to your wonderful guidance I was able to purchase my first new car: a 2000 VW Golf 1.8T.

I shopped and test drove a variety of cars in the process, including the 2002 Altima 3.5 SE (too big and it felt less luxurious than the previous Altimas), the 2002 Impreza WRX (too cheap-feeling, uncomfortable, and an inexcusably ugly exterior compared to previous generations), among others. No other car matched the Golf's utility, functionality, sportiness, economics, space, price, and feeling of luxury. It's tiny on the outside and downright huge on the inside, and I love VW's attention to details. I searched and searched until I found exactly the certified pre-owned that I wanted in exactly the right options and color (black exterior, with gray cloth interior), and I ended up getting a great deal on it, paying just under the TMV and getting a great warranty package.

Now, I only wonder why more of the twenty-somethings in my area don't buy them! It's extremely rare in this area. They're the perfect compromise vehicle, without feeling like one. I see why it's one of Europe's most popular cars! Thanks again, Edmunds for turning someone who's car-clueless into an automotive guru, and for guiding me towards a car that I know I'll love for years to come!


Subject: BMW et alia
From: M. Herrera

I have been perusing and enjoying your web site for some time. Good for you for sticking to your guns and reporting about the cars you admire. I have finally read your letters to the editor and I am confounded by some of your readers and their "Buy America" business. I believe they should instead focus on quality. And US car manufacturers typically fall behind the rest of the world in quality, innovation and fuel economy. Where's the US-built hybrid? Toyota has had one since '98. Unless we take US automakers to task, they tend to produce the same old thing.


Subject: Keep up the great work!
From: C. Jackson

I look forward to Edmunds every day and I get irritated when there isn't a new car review every hour or so!

I am, by my own admission, a gear head and I appreciate your reviews. I feel that they are very honest and tell it like it is. There aren't may reviews out there that do that. Some say that you tend to be too critical of American cars or favor European/Japanese cars. I don't believe that for a minute.

My wife and I both drive GM vehicles (SUV's) and we know how lacking American car quality can be. I hope that your reviews will help people chose a better car and in turn "force" American car manufacturers' to produce a better product.


Subject: General Reply to Letters to the Editor
From: D. Dukaric

At the risk of being lynched, I'm going to chime in with my opinion on the ongoing debate of American vs. Foreign Cars.

I think your opinions of each car are fair and correct. I don't think you are biased in any of your reviews or towards or against any car company. The criticism you receive for favoring non-American cars, just because they're non-American is unbased and just unintelligent. These people fail to realize that some "foreign" automobiles have more domestic content that the common domestics.

I grew up in Detroit and know you don't buy a foreign car there. I always defended US automakers to my friends and relatives. I had always bought American and criticized my family for buying Japanese. Funny thing was I was always asking to borrow their cars when I needed to go to the parts store for repairs.

My opinions changed when I graduated from college. I began working as an engineer for an automotive supplier that specialized in safety systems (stability control specifically). I had an opportunity to work with the Big Three in the States, the Japanese, and extensively with the Europeans. I have come to the following general conclusions about each of them:

1. German Manufacturers - Highly concerned with safety, technology, performance, quality, and reliability.

2. Japanese Manufacturers - Use existing technology that is proven, concerned with reliability, use less-expensive, even inferior interior materials, unwilling to engineer sophisticated safety equipment in all of their car lines.

3. American Manufacturers - Most concerned with the bottom dollar, unwilling to use cutting edge technology, unwilling to engineer sophisticated safety equipment in all of their car lines. Generally less reliable and problematic.

I had a fair history with the American cars I purchased in the past. But I came to a point in my life when safety and reliability were most important to me. My needs were a four-door sedan with a manual transmission and available stability control. The latter, much unheard-of system is the most important consideration of any of my future car purchases. Anyone familiar with this system will agree.

Not many automobile manufacturers offer this somewhat simple list of desires in the same automobile. Nothing from the Japanese lineup had them packaged together, unless I was willing to forego the manual transmission. A similar story existed for the American makers (except for the Lincoln LS). Then I looked to the German manufacturers. Manual transmission, 4-door vehicles with stability control abound in their offerings. I eventually bought a new BMW 325i with the aid of your web site.

As others have stated, a sensible automobile purchase consists of numerous components. Safety, reliability, cost, performance, appeal, etc. I have listed them in the order that makes the most sense to me. Offerings from BMW and Mercedes fit these general categories the best.

They are one of the safest vehicles on the road with excellent crash ratings and safety features that other manufacturers don't offer.

They are extremely reliable. Maybe not quite up to the standards of the premium Japanese, but better than American, and especially Chrysler products.

They are actually very affordable to own. The initial cost is high, but the resale value is among the best in the industry. My BMW, after 5 years of ownership, will only cost me slightly more than a new Ford Focus, which, while having extremely sensible initial cost, will have almost no resale value. Considering that my BMW will retain 50% of it's value after 5 years, I could trade it in for a new one and end up paying less than a new economy car, while at the same time exhibiting the excellent standards listed here.

Performance and appeal have little to do with a sensible automobile purchase, but they are extremely desirable and come included with the German makers offerings.

Based upon these factors, your publication is right-on in rating your many vehicles. If we go beyond the prejudices (both for and anti-American makers) we can review a car for what it is and offers.

I apologize for the length of this letter, but feel it is a good response to the many letters aimed at the editors of this fine publication.


Subject: American or Foreign cars?
From: P. Venkatesan V

I am an auto enthusiast from India and a regular visitor of your site. I saw some letters asking people not to support foreign cars. I wish to remind them it is the USA that is at the forefront of globalization. All over the world (including my country), US corporations are swallowing up many local companies. Let me remind my friends that the US is the most ardent advocator of free markets in this world. It's the companies from the western world that have created the fundamental law of the modern world, "Be competitive or perish".

Also, the USA is economically the most prosperous in the world. So what's wrong if the companies from other parts of the world are able to sell their products that are of better quality in the American market? That way they will be able to improve their economies and try to reduce the economic divide plaguing in this world. I find calls to support American products over foreign ones laughable.

I find yours to be the most comprehensive auto site on the net. There is something in it for every one (from the genuine buyer to a car enthusiast like me just looking for information). I make it a point to read every review/ article you publish. Keep up the good work.


Subject: Regards to American Cars
From: Dean

I am so tired of reading the letters that people send you guys about buying American (GM, Ford, Chrysler). I am now on my second Honda Accord, which is assembled and designed in America. I have owned three Fords in the past (Taurus, T-Bird, and Tempo), and they were the most unreliable cars that I have ever experienced. The T-Bird burnt to the ground, and the Tempo also caught on fire (we were able to extinguish it in time). Why anyone would consider these cars is beyond me.

Also, people want to blame me for the closing of plants and losses of American jobs since I bought a Honda. The only people to blame for the loss of jobs at these Ford and GM plants are the union workers that work for them and could not put together a few legos correctly much less build a car properly. So, I say buy Honda and Toyota. They are made in America, most of the parts are made in America, and they are simply screwed together better.


Subject: Letters to the Editor
From: J. Taylor

I was reading your review on the Hyundai Elantra and I can identify with your comment expressing your frustration with the fact you could not find an Elantra with anti-lock brakes (ABS). My wife and I had a similar problem when we were shopping for her 2002 Toyota RAV4. For some reason, essentially none of the RAV4s in the St. Louis area had ABS. One dealership we talked to said that we wouldn't find ABS in our sales region because Toyota doesn't sell them here with ABS. Since St. Louis does get some snow and ice, my wife and I considered the ABS to be a must-have feature. That same dealer tried to convince us that the car was so light, it didn't need ABS. Funny, my car weighs about the same as the RAV4 and it has ABS standard. Hmm....

Luckily, we found a dealer with a loaded RAV4 with ABS. We ended up spending a lot more than we hoped due to the extra options, but it was worth it to get the ABS and to get my wife's first choice vehicle. If we wouldn't have found this vehicle with ABS, we would have had to look for a different vehicle. I'm sure Toyota knows what it is doing, but it seems odd that it would have at least some of the RAV4s with ABS on dealer lots, especially since it is only a $300 option.

I also wanted to say thank you for your very helpful website. It made the purchase of my wife's RAV4 and my Subaru Impreza WRX much easier. It is nice being able to go into a dealer feeling prepared! In addition, it also gave me peace of mind to be able to compare the car I was interested in to the others on the market so that I could feel good about my purchase afterward. Please keep up the great work!

As for the American versus foreign cars debate, my wife and I both found that the domestic manufacturers just didn't offer viable alternatives. All other things being equal, I would buy an American car. However, I would argue that things currently are certainly not equal, although the domestic manufacturers seem to be heading back in the right direction.