Letters to the Editors
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Subject: Long-Term Scion tC Test
From: Eric

Enjoyed your long-term article on the tC. Have been looking at one myself to someday replace my Matrix XRS — it seems to have a much more "docile" personality than what I'm putting up with everyday!

One clarification I'd like to make: in the third paragraph you wrote, "Why not call it the xC, you ask? That's a good question, one we don't have an answer for." The answer is that another brand sold in North America already uses that designation: Volvo. A few other articles have noticed this, but what was surprising was that the Scion salesman at our local Toyota dealership actually knew the answer as well!

As always, please keep up the excellent and informative work, both you and the entire staff at Edmunds.

Subject: Leasing
From: G

Thanks for the information and excellent tips regarding auto leasing and new purchases. Car dealerships are notorious for running misleading ads and recently, I've actually had the unpleasant experience of visiting one that actually lies.

Last May, I visited BayRidge Lexus in Brooklyn, N.Y., in hopes of leasing a 2004 Lexus ES 330. Their ad in the local paper explicitly displayed a lease price of $399 per month. The fine print did include a deposit of approximately $3,000 consisting of the usual bank fees, destination charges and license. It explicitly advertised, no additional out-of-pocket. I honestly believed the paper to be accurate and took it seriously.

Upon my arrival at the dealership to sign a contract, I was notified by the salesman that taxes were additional. I showed the salesperson and his manager that the ad never mentioned taxes are additional, and I highlighted their "No Additional Out of Pocket" statement.

Their response was that taxes are always assumed, and they have a legal right to advertise without mentioning them in ads.

I did call prior to my trip to the dealership to confirm the ad, and they assured me what was printed is accurate.

Needless to say I was exasperated by making an unnecessary trip to Brooklyn and felt I could never build a relationship with any organization that uses deception in hopes of making a deal.

Unnecessary trips to Brooklyn are always a hassle. And your story is a warning to everyone who believes there is truth in advertising. Reading a car ad is a good place to begin but remember the old saying, "An advertisement is like a bikini: what it reveals is enticing, what it conceals is essential." — Ed.

Subject: "How to Read A Car Ad"
From: Anonymous

I've been in the automotive sales business for over 15 years and it's advice like yours that makes it even harder to do business than it has already become. Telling a person that is shopping for a new vehicle to threaten legal action at the onset is ridiculous. The fear most people have about even walking into a dealership is already so great and you add even more. Most dealerships will show an ad vehicle from the start because generally it is standard equipped and most people are looking for more frills and a sale is still a sale. Today's dealerships are more concerned with customer satisfaction and volume. The days of huge profits on new vehicles are a rare occurrence.

The fact that you state a $399 payment for 60-month payment would break the bank shows even more of your ignorance. With the prices of new vehicles today and the average down payment there isn't any possible way for a person could get a $399 payment for 36 months. Most people have a budget that mandates them to go for a longer term. The amount to finance would need to be about $13,600 at 36 months. Most customers coming into a dealership with more than $1,000 for a down payment is rare. That being the case customers would have to choose a new vehicle for a little over $12,000. How many new vehicles at that price do you think are in today's market?

Maybe when writing an article you should either be clearer on what you are writing or research a lot more than you did this time.

We will try to be clearer as soon as we figure out what you are criticizing us for. You didn't like the article, that's clear. But was it wrong? If $399 monthly payments are unrealistic, then why are they advertising them? That's the whole point of the article. — Ed.

Subject: Confessions of a Car Salesman
From: NJN

I have just finished reading your story on entering/experiencing car sales. I read the story with a sad pit in my stomach and a pain in my chest. Just this morning I called the BMW dealership I signed on with 2 1/2 weeks ago to resign. Your recap of the environment is crystal clear and truer than anyone could imagine. My only regret is that I did not read it before I spent 1 week in a training class (unpaid) put on by a former car salesman. After this class the owner sends "graduates" out for interviews at prospective dealerships. His class promised to insure our success in the industry. Dealers pay his company $1,200-$1,500 per "placement." He encourages his graduates to stay with their dealership at least 45 days to make sure that they give themselves enough time to "make it." I think that he forfeits his finder's fee for these new recruits if they leave before that time frame. Thank you SO MUCH for reinforcing my decision to get out of a bad bad situation. I have been in sales for over 30 years for many Fortune 500 companies. I bought the yarn that the car sales industry had "changed" for the better. Now I know better!!

The car sales industry is changing but there is still enough of the old guard in place that you have to be careful. The intention of "Confessions" was not to discourage people from entering this business but to paint an accurate portrait of one person's experience. There are many good salespeople that eventually make it, usually by adapting the system to their needs. Unfortunately, many good people drop out before that point and go on to other things. — Ed.

Subject: Reliability Issues with Honda Odyssey
From: Jason

I am a recent purchaser of an '04 Honda Odyssey. I immediately began experiencing random hesitation issues with it, so I started searching Internet and found the forums at www.odyclub.com. To my amazement, I started reading about EGR and transmission issues and recalls, and just yesterday, a fuel pump recall. Needless to say, my brand-new Odyssey is scheduled for its first visit to the shop for a nonmaintenance issue with only 4,000 miles on it.

So, after reading about all of these issues that these people have been having over the last several years, why does the automobile press continue to write articles proclaiming that Honda's reliability is what has made the Odyssey reign supreme?

I think Honda's reliability has slipped here lately between the Accord /TL transmission issues and now these EGR and transmission issues with the Odyssey. Maybe a little research is in order before possibly overtouting an attribute that Honda used to have, but is starting to slip. And I don't say this lightly either; I've owned three Accords ('86, '90, '01) and now my first van, the Honda Odyssey. I just don't think they are making them like they used to.

You have every right to be unhappy with unscheduled dealer visits, but did you actually suffer any problems with your Odyssey or are you just bringing it in to have it inspected for possible problems in the future? We don't think you should ever have to deal with such repairs, but we also know that a recall doesn't always necessarily translate into a poor ownership experience. We've have had two long-term vehicles — a Ford Focus and a Mazda Tribute — that required more than a few dealer visits for recall fixes, yet both cars earned favorable overall reviews given that none of the problems ever left us on the side of the road. On the other hand, we did have a Honda Pilot that never received a recommended recall fix and it did in fact leave us stranded, an incident that left us questioning Honda's reputation for reliability. We'll be adding an all-new '05 Odyssey to our long-term fleet shortly and you can bet that we'll be keeping a close eye on such issues. — Ed.

Subject: Leasing
From: Bill

Philip:

I have to take issue with your statements on Edmunds in your articles on leasing that "you will never own the car…" or words to that effect. I feel that it's a bit misleading for those who are reading your articles in an attempt to understand how leasing works — you can own the car.

Whether you "buy" a car in the usual sense (by making a down payment and then paying off a loan to a zero balance), or lease, you don't really "own" the car like you would if you had paid cash. A financial entity holds the pink slip in both cases, so they really own the car. You can't sell the car until you get your hands on the pink slip, and you have to pay them off before you can get it. If you can't sell it freely, you don't own it.

Since virtually all leases contain a provision to buy the car for the residual value at the end of the lease, you can in fact "own" the car you've been leasing for the past few years by paying the lender the residual value. You then get the pink slip and own the car. Just like you get the pink slip when you make your final loan payment.

Effectively, leasing is just putting the down payment at the end of a stream of payments rather than at the beginning of a stream of payments, as you do when you buy a car by putting cash down first and then paying a bank loan down to zero.

If you think of it that way, it's just a reversal of the classic "down payment first, payments second" way of buying a car. A lot of people don't realize this, and may be scared off of leasing by statements that they will never own the car.

Senior Consumer Advice Editor Phil Reed responds: Leasing does offer the flexibility to eventually own the car as you described. And, yes, "owning" is often a misused term in cars and houses. Still, the person who has bought the car is working toward ownership while the person who is leasing is planning on returning the car unmodified. People enjoy the personal expression that comes with making changes to their cars that suit their personality. If they do this to a leased car they either have to undo the changes, buy the car or pay a penalty. This is why some people prefer ownership while others like to lease.

My intention is not to scare people away from leasing but to fully prepare them to make the best possible decision before signing the contract. Leasing is a great alternative for some people. Other people lease but then say, "I'll never do that again" because they didn't understand it or they were stuck in a poorly designed lease.

Subject: Lease Question
From: Dennis

I recently leased a Mazda RX-8 in Dallas, TX. In the sales order, I have paid for the sales tax (rolled into my lease) and license fee.

When I received my registration, it shows that the leasing company owns the car and "paid" the sales tax. I'm thinking about buying out the lease shortly (Mazda will let me do this), but when I do, do I have to pay the sales tax again to have the title transfer to my name?

You will have to pay sales tax on the buyout fee. Some manufacturers collect this in the buyout check while others leave it to the DMV to collect at the time of registration. Keep your eye on the taxable amount, though, since buyers have been known to pay double tax. — Ed.

Subject: Evo MR
From: Avery

In the latest test-drive article by Ed Hellwig on the Mitsubishi Evolution MR, you stated, "With nearly identical gear spacing to the five-speed box, there's not much of a difference in the overall speeds between the MR and the standard model. Slightly more aggressive gearing might make the six-speed more worthwhile, but as it is, there's not much to complain about"… and, "driven back to back with the standard model, we considered the MR a little sharper in transitions and slightly easier to predict at the limit. There were, however, other drivers on the same track who said they still preferred the overall feel of the base model over the MR."

In both areas, you made reference to the "standard model." Please specify the "standard model" that you are referring to. Is it the standard '03/'04 Evo VIII model (without the active diff and front limited slip) or the standard '05 non-MR model (with the active diff and front limited slip)?

We were referring to the standard '05 model that is equipped with the active differential and added horsepower, sorry for the confusion. — Ed.

Subject: Ford Five Hundred First Drive
From: Michael

After reading your article regarding the Ford Five Hundred, I came away quite disappointed with your review.

Considering the fact that I have had quite a bit of seat time in both the Five Hundred and Freestyle, I have many reservations regarding comments about the "cheap"-feeling interior and "mediocre" engine performance.

First of all we all know, and Edmunds should definitely know this, that Electronic Throttle Control has a knack of taking away the initial feeling of acceleration. With that being said, did Edmunds perform instrumented testing to back up their claim of marginal performance? Why didn't the writer of the article just leave the acceleration bit out, and instead make a statement, such as, "We will make our determination at a later date, so that we can perform more testing." If this is the case then Ford should recall all the brochures that they printed with the tag line "When 203 hp beats 250," as it is not true. I have never seen anyone go on and on and on about power in a VW Passat V6 4Motion, or the lack thereof.

The observations about the interior, that also bugs me, as I know that was the first thing that I looked at touched, poked and pulled at when I got inside the car. I'm sorry whether it's a Toyota or Chevy, VW or Nissan, none of those cars have interiors that supersede that of the Five Hundred and if they do it isn't by much. Everything that I interact with or touch (as far as interior materials are concerned) as a typical driver, didn't give me the feeling of cheap or flimsy, so I am having issues trying to figure out where your writer got that information from.

Although I have quite a bit of respect for this Web site and the services that it provides its many daily readers, I think that a bit more attention should be paid to the information published so that consumers get the real deal. As we all know, many Americans look to sites such as yours for information, doing so without doing their own independent research. First it was the write-up about the oil consumption in an RX-8 (which is in the owner's manual yet someone felt the need to write in that review that they had basically a hard time believing that) now the Five Hundred. What's up with that?

Senior Content Editor Erin Riches responds: The important thing to keep in mind when reading one of our First Drives is that this is indeed the first time we get to drive the car, and usually, it's only for a few hours in very controlled conditions. Rarely is there enough time to conduct any instrumented testing or go over the interior inch by inch — that happens later when we get the car for a week-long loan and conduct a full road test on it.

Even so, I stand by the comments I made about the engine and interiors of the Five Hundred and Montego. I have spent considerable time in many of the Five Hundred's competitors — Chrysler 300, Honda Accord, Nissan Altima, Toyota Camry and Volkswagen Passat — and I drew upon that experience. The interior materials in the Five Hundred and Montego are attractive, but when I ran my fingers over the vinyls and plastics, they lacked the smooth, substantial feel of the surfaces in the Accord, Camry and Passat and I said so in my review. After a few hours of driving the cars on Ford's proving grounds, I felt confident enough to say that the acceleration was adequate — as in not pathetically slow but not exhilaratingly brisk — compared to that of other cars in this price range. And I was careful to note that I was not able to test either car with a full load of passengers. Since this was just a First Drive, other Edmunds.com editors will have an opportunity to check out both of these things for themselves when we get a Five Hundred test car. If they disagree with me, they'll be sure to take me to task in our Full Test.

Subject: Ed Hellwig's Stereo Evaluation of 2004 BMW 530i
From: Tom

Thanks for your review of the premium sound system in the 2004 5 Series. I have a 2004 525i and cannot find all the 14 speakers which Ed lists included in the premium sound system he reviewed.

Are the tweeters in the front A-pillar and rear parcel shelf and woofers in the rear parcel shelf not covered with speaker grill-type coverings? I cannot find them. Ed indicates 14 total speaker elements. Exactly where are all 14 of them? Is the center channel speaker located "on top of the dashboard" just to the right of the HUD display?

Please recommend CDs to bring out the best of this sound system, to include bass. Include "popular music" as well as other types of music.

Senior Road Test Editor Ed Hellwig responds: I was mistaken. BMW's superb Logic7 sound system only comes with 13 speakers: three in the dash (two A-pillar tweeters, one center channel), two subs under the front seats, one speaker in each of the four doors and four in the rear parcel shelf (two tweeters and two full range speakers). As far as CDs are concerned, the mark of any top-notch audio system is the ability to make any kind of music sound good. At the risk of exposing my pathetically shallow collection of music, I'll leave out specific CD recommendations for now.

Subject: Top 10 Safety Features
From: Jack

You forgot to mention seatbelts. People still do not use them and you are making a mistake not to mention them as #1.

There's no doubt that the use of a seatbelt is far and away the most effective safety feature of any car, but in this article we were focusing on features that might not be found in every car, unlike mandatory seatbelts. — Ed.

Subject: Reliability
From: Chris

I've seen it again and again in your letters to the editors. When someone brings up reliability problems, that go against your recommendations, you mention how your long-term car has suffered few problems.

For example,

You're right, our comparison was biased — biased toward the truck with the best performance, biggest interior and most usable cargo bed. The fact that the F-150 is offered in a regular cab model is meaningless and we have suffered from few quality problems with our long-term Titan test truck. If the F-150 works for you then enjoy, but we pick our winners objectively based on standardized testing, not some desire to equalize market share. — Ed.

You must realize that a sample of one is not useful for determining reliability. Why insult people's intelligence? If you want to make a claim that the reliability is OK then back it up with something logical.

On the issue of reliability, I'd like to see a distinction between newer car and older car reliability. Reliability for a new car is often a nonissue since the warranty is still in effect. Is it true that the Japanese brands kick butt in this long-term reliability? Which models are best? This is important for someone wants to buy a used car or plans to own a new car well past the warranty period.

Just so I don't seem overly negative, besides this one nagging issue, I think your Web site is excellent. I assume the reason you don't address this issue and will probably ignore this letter is the only current source of this information is Consumer Reports. You buddies at J.D. Power probably don't want you to recommend their rival Consumer Reports.

We would consider it illogical for us to call a vehicle unreliable in spite of the fact that we owned it for a year and experienced no reported problems. We realize that our long-term test cars are very specific examples, but they are the best we can do on a personal basis. For a more broad-based look at reliability, check out the ratings from our "buddies" at J.D. Power. We currently supply them for most new and used vehicles and they include both short- and long-term statistics — Ed.

Subject: Used Car Buying Tips
From: Corey

Dear Mr. Reed:

In your interview with Bill Weissman and Kenneth Mills on vehicle trade-ins, Mr. Mills mentioned an interesting point about sales tax for the trade difference:

"Mills: Heck, yes. It is quick and doesn't cost you as much as you might think, especially if you drive the right kind of car. Also, many states (all the ones I have worked in) give you credit for your trade when figuring sales tax. For instance, let's say you are buying a $20,000 car, and have a $12,000 trade. The sales tax in my state is 6 percent on cars. You will pay taxes on $8,000 in most states, instead of $20,000, for a savings of $720."

My question is this: how do you know if your state only charges sales tax for the trade difference? I can't find information about this anywhere, and you can bet I'm not going to trust the dealer. Is Virginia one of those states?

Can you help? I've hit a road block on finding this information and it could save me almost $1,000.

Unfortunately, in Virginia you pay sales tax on the total purchase price of the car. There is a small savings on a related tax but on a $50,000 vehicle you would only save about $40. You might consider moving one state south, to North Carolina, where you only pay sales tax on the difference between your trade-in and the purchase price of the new car. — Ed.

Subject: Leasing Tips
From: Will

OK, now I'm confused. In your Leasing Tips article, "Dissecting the Deal — How to Spot a Good Lease" you say that the total paid on a lease is the same regardless of the down payment, but your Basic Lease Calculator says otherwise.

If I enter a $30,000 sales price, $15,000 residual, and leave everything else alone it gives me a monthly payment of $593.14 or $21,353.04 over 36 months.

But if I enter a $5,000 down payment, the monthly payment drops to $433.73 or $15,614.28 over 36 payments. Add back my $5,000 down and I've paid only $20,614.28 for the same 36 month lease. What gives?

When you put money down at the start of the lease, you don't pay interest on that amount. When you put down a large amount of money (like $5K), the difference in interest you don't pay can add up. However, you do run the risk of losing it all if something happens to the car. As the article stated, you would be better off putting the $5,000 into an interest bearing account and dip into it as necessary. While the interest rate you would get in a savings account won't offset the interest you pay on the lease, it would certainly help mitigate the interest you have to pay, and you don't risk your down payment. — Ed.

Subject: Fuel Consumption
From: Paul

In all your model reviews I see the MPG ratings. But in all my searches nowhere can I find anything regarding the required, or recommended octane ratings. In my opinion if one model gets a mile or two more per gallon than another, what's the advantage if a higher fuel grade is required over the other? Do the math.

The problem with this issue is the fact that very few modern engines actually "require" premium fuel — they just recommend it for best performance. While most manufacturers will quote numbers attained using regular unleaded, others choose to use the more promising numbers that can be achieved with higher-octane gas. Figure that if a manufacturer recommends premium for a particular vehicle, then that vehicle's mileage figures are likely to correspond to the use of premium fuel. — Ed.

Subject: Most Wanted List
From: James

Just a short note about your "Most Wanted" vehicle list, no insult intended, but are you insane or just not as knowledgeable as you are supposed to be?

Undoubtedly the "Most Wanted" vehicle is the 2004 Toyota Prius! How could this respected automotive Web site have missed this one? It wasn't even listed in any of the subcategories! Was your list limited only to those cars which you could get your hands on now or just those cars that you want? Are there any other production cars that have a "waiting list"? Have I missed something?

Yes, you missed the part where it says Editors' Most Wanted awards, as in the cars and trucks that we would want to own. You might want to check out our Consumers' Most Wanted awards, as the top honor for 2004 did in fact go to your beloved Prius. — Ed.

Subject: First Drive — 2005 Maserati Quattroporte
From: Abhinav

Alex Law's article on Maserati Quattroporte is extremely well written and right on the outset an outstanding piece of automotive journalism. It grabs you right up front and communicates a passion that makes the reader as pleased to read about the car as he/she would be to own that car. Good job! This kind of writing has kept me coming back for years to Edmunds.com — even when I am not in the market for a car!

Subject: Carmudgeon — Why iDrive Won't Fly
From: Dave

I enjoyed Karl Brauer's article on the BMW iDrive and other luxury brand "cockpit control systems." While the Audi Multimedia interface he calls "the charm," he's overlooked the best interface of all in the Acura TL. I don't own one, but I soon will. The LCD touchscreen, the simple, duplicated function buttons and the easy-to-use voice commands are nearly perfect and easily outshine Audi's Multimedia interface. Mr. Brauer mentions other, simpler cars such as the Honda Civic, Hyundai Elantra and even Saab Sonett, but he should look no further than the Acura TL to find the best cockpit control system in any car produced to date.

Subject: Subaru Legacy GT Full Test
From: Anonymous

You wrote about the automatic transmission: "The only remedy is to always use the sport mode…." Although there was only the briefest mention of the AT's "sport mode" in this test, I was left with the impression it significantly altered the transmission's behavior, possibly removing all the flaws you found in normal mode.

The manual transmission is not an option for me. I own a sporty car with "economy"-minded shift programming and well know it daily ruins the driving experience no matter how spirited the engine. Despite the rest of the package, I won't get the Legacy if its AT is more concerned with mpg than with moving through traffic.

For me it comes down to how the "sport mode" changes the AT's behavior in the turbo wagon. There is little to go on in the article, might you explain more about the real-world effect it has? Looking at your paragraph about the AT, "This all sounds great on paper…"; with the AT in sport mode is turbo lag now nonexistent? Does the AT still sap the fun, shift up too soon and too frequently? Most especially, in sport mode will the AT readily downshift in normal driving or does it require serious application of the throttle?

Subaru says the AT has lateral G sensors that allegedly prevent an upshift going through turns. You didn't mention that feature, does it have little noticeable effect?

If I haven't tried your patience too far, could you mention what the drawbacks, if any, would be to leaving the AT in sport mode all the time? Never mind the mpg penalty, would this eventually get on one's nerves due to the opposite problem — it won't upshift when it should?

While it's true the automatic transmission does sap much of the Legacy's fun factor, use of the "sport" mode does help. The sport mode effectively moves the shift points up which minimizes the jerky turbo lag. It doesn't totally eliminate the problem but it does make the car much easier to live with. Another option is to use the "sportshift" mode where you can electronically shift the gears whenever you see fit by using steering wheel-mounted buttons or the console-mounted shifter. The only foreseeable problem with leaving the car in sport mode all the time is that you have to activate it each time you start the car. Once you turn the car off, the transmission will always revert to the "normal" setting — this could get tiresome. Using the sport mode all the time did not make the car frustrating to drive. Still, the best solution by far is to get a five-speed manual. The turbocharged Legacy GT with a manual transmission is an awesome car. If you're considering a Legacy GT, you should drive both the A/T and manual transmission and decide for yourself. — Ed.