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1997 Mercedes-Benz S-Class Consumer Discussions
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All Mercedes-Benz S-Class Models
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Mercedes-Benz S-Class
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Re: S 320 (1997 model) recommendations? [benztuner]
Benz tuner, May be interested in the RS90 17 lorinser wheels you have. I am looking for spares for my 560SEC. Have a set on the car with et22 wheels. What is the off set of your wheels. thank you in advance. Jim Houk
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Re: S 320 (1997 model) recommendations? [henrlim]
Michelans are what Mercedes-Benz recommends. Michelan actually makes tires especially for Mercedes-Benz vehicles, the tires are made to reduce noise, increase tread mileage, increase fuel mileage, etc. I know the Michelans are more expensive but they are the better tires. You might want to check with your local Mercedes-Benz dealership for tires, or a local Michelan dealer. By the way, if she wants some Lorinser 17" RS90 wheels, ive got a ... Read More
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S 320 (1997 model) recommendations?
Help!!!! My sister just purchased a very well kept 1997 Mercedes S 320. Can anyone tell me which tire would have the best grip and quietness to suit this car?
High End Luxury Cars
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Re: 2007 Detroit Autoshow Pics [lexusguy]
Correct! The "Maybach" was a Mercedes when it was originally shown at the 1997 Tokyo auto show. What happened next was a classic case of German see, German does. VW and BMW got Bentley and Rolls so Mercedes figured they'd bring a prestigous name from past back to life. So at the last minute they changed the plan from calling it "The Maybach by Mercedes" to a seperate brand. Problem is ... Read More
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Re: Now for the good and not so good news!? [tagman]
Well lets go back to the beginning of the Maybach issue. The car was originally intended and labeled "The Maybach by Mercedes-Benz". The original concept car shown at the 1997 Tokyo auto show as a grand Mercedes really close to the spirit of old "600" MBs from years ago. Then..... BMW and VW got a hold of Rolls and Bentley repsectively so Mercedes decided to switch up the program (i.e. make ... Read More
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Re: There are risks and there are RISKS [oac]
And these are just in NA alone.... By the time you add the variants in Europe, Middle East and Asia, you'd have to multiply each model line by a factor of 2 !!! Burger King-way sure looks like it, but it ain't a way to improve brand image and marqueness, all IMO !!! Yet it works. See this is where knowing about Mercedes comes in at. They've always had a lot ... Read More
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Re: wild speculations and examples [lexusguy]
LS has beaten european helms in every measure except driving dynamics and heritage. In fact in heritage, only mercedes has some kind of distinct superiority. A8 was introduced in 1994 (1997 in North America) and 7-series came about in 1978.
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LOL!! I dig you, Merc!
:P I like you, Merc. You make me laugh! If Matrix were here, he'd laugh too. Take the gloves off and start swingin'! ;) Alright, let's see if you'll follow this line of questioning: 1. Was that a good picture of a vehicle for a national print ad campaign? 2. I omitted BMW for three very good reasons. One, their ads are consistent to their slogan and mantra, which has NEVER ... Read More
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1999 Mercedes S320 reliability
Does somebody has reasons to believe that the 1999 Mercedes S320 would be a decent reliability car ? I am very concerned about the 2000-2005 reliability record, and wonder if the previous model (1997-1999) was a simpler, so more reliable car. Thanks
Mercedes-Benz S-Class
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Share some knowledge
Hello to all, I have developed a love for the S-Class Mercedes Benz (1997-1999). I have never owned one and would like to know what to look for, and what to stay away from, in my search. Thanks, HDY
High End Luxury Cars
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Re: merc1 [syswei]
But let's say you're right (for the sake of arguement, and I'd still like to hear an unbiased opinion for instance from designman), and the Camry is a clone. What makes it ok for the S to copy the Maybach butt, but not ok for the Camry to copy the LS butt? I guess it is acceptable when a German company does it, but not acceptable when a Japanese company does ... Read More
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Re: is this the high end timepiece discussion?? [oac]
BTW, there are more Maybach's on limo linesin posh hotels than on driveways. What a disaster from MB.... And how much better to point to failure than to re-design your high-end S-class in the mold of the failed Maybach experiment. What were they thinking ????? The difference that you're not seeing here is that the Mercedes S-Class is a known product, unlike Maybach. The S-Class will have a certain amount of ... Read More
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Re: Land Rover [ljflx]
First of all I don't understand why Lexus even enters the discussion. It's a simple POV re this S-class design and has nothing to do with Lexus in any way. So trying to create a new series of flame posts re the two brands accomplishes nothing and is downright silly so I won't even go there. My point is not to start another debate about Lexus and Mercedes, its just that ... Read More
High-End European Luxury Sedans
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New S is Throw Up Ugly
I don't think I've ever seen photos of a new 'brand defining' car that is so ugly as the shots from the Frankfurt Auto Show of the new Mercedes S. It looks like it was designed by some goofy committee that was picking up cues from the auto junkyard. The wheel arches are terrible and unnecessary. The wheels themselves are available at the Lexus store for the LS400 from 1997 - ... Read More
High End Luxury Cars
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Re: Merc1 [syswei]
Actually, why not? As long as the price gap between MB and Lexus is constant, why shouldn't MB grow as fast as Lexus? Now, if the average gap used to be 15% and then went to 50%, of course you'd expect slower growth from MB. But if the price gap has been fairly constant (and no one has shown otherwise), there is no reason to expect a different growth rate. Because ... Read More
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Re: Its all about *looks* [oac]
I am perplexed. Maybe Merc1 has an answer.... I'm not exactly sure what your question is? The things you say they need to concentrate on, they've done just that. Have you seen the interior pics? The best detailing I've seen on a Benz since the late 80's early 90's. If they had gone for just an updated version of the current S, everyone would harp that they didn't do enough. Once ... Read More
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Re: Jaguar [xkss]
Though I did like the XJS way back in the day, I really never really gave Jaguars too much thought until the 1997 XK8 showed up. Then came the 2000 S-Type and now the 2004 XJ. The XK is still as timeless as day one. Remarkable. The 2000-2002 S-Type was not up to the Jaguar name imo. The cheap Ford touches were everywhere. Then for 2003 the car got its first ... Read More
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New Aluminum Jaguars
The next Jaguar S-Type will likely use the new XJ's aluminum chassis and have styling cues from the 2001 Jaguar R Coupe and the 2003 Jaguar RD-6. I think the grille and headlights need some work, but it looks nice. The Jaguar Advanced Lightweight Coupe shows what the next XK might look like. The next XK will have to comply with new European pedestrian safety regulations. The next XK will use ... Read More
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re:footie [stroudman]
Mercedes is as good about hyping other folks innovations as any company I know, and some sites like carfans and wolfgangs just perpetuate the baloney. So here's an update: crumple zones, yep MB. It's true! airbags(patent), Invented by American Allen Breed, first installed in production vehicles by GM, sold to the US Government in 1973. See: http://inventors.about.com/library/inventors/blair_bags.htm auto-dimming mirrors, You might want to take a look at Fred Bauer the entrepreneur ... Read More
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Oac
"Now as to the rest of your long post, I really don't know what to say. Let's start with the one about Lexus' presence or lack thereof in its home country. I disagree. Lexus has been in its home country since 1990, except that it is cloaked as a "Toyota". This is prime example of what I'm talking about here. You simply can't have it both ways. Either it is a ... Read More
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Re: [syswei]
"What has MB done for the industry in the last 15 years?...Yes, MB has managed to do more here in 120 years than Lexus has in 15. " You must have been living under a rock for the last 15 years. Even if we disregard countless Mercedes innovations and only include those introduced since 1989 Mercedes STILL trumps Lexus by a wide margin. Virtually every safety feature in every Lexus car ... Read More
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Re: More debates.. [sv7887]
"Merc, I've seen the A-Class in person here in London..It just looks like a tin can to me..What are they accomplishing by going so down market? Isn't this what they bought Chrysler for? From a business perspective it would make more sense to concentrate on the Neon to penetrate this segment rather than dilute the MB brand name. Mercedes should concentrate on their E and above models and delegate the rest ... Read More
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brightness04
The A-Class is a Mercedes-Benz, not a cheaper brand car like most Acuras that have been re-badged from something else to sell under a luxury brand. I think you're getting me mixed up with others here, I didn't say Mercedes and especially Audi were exclusively high end luxury. My point with Mercedes is that are luxury car maker that recently (1997) started making cheaper cars like the A-Class. Mercedes has had ... Read More
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Re: [brightness04]
My point about the CLK DTM AMG was two fold. One it was an attempt the change the direction the increasingly lame conversation on this board and two Lexus has nothing even closely similar hence the catchet that the Mercedes brand enjoys worldwide. What you and others seem to forget is that Mercedes made its name on luxury and sports cars, not A-Classes. The A-Class and 190 (C-Class ancestor) weren't on ... Read More
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Ljflx
Now the A-Class and Smart are image problems with Mercedes too? Smart is a seperate brand entirely. You know like Toyota is supposed to be seperate from Lexus. Smarts don't look anything like Mercedes, unlike Toyota's Camry Solara and the Lexus SC430 and now the Avalon which has a Lexus interior if there ever was such a thing. Talk about hurting the image. Why would anyone buy a ES330 over the ... Read More
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michael_mattox
This is amazing. (Last Post) "In your previous post the chart showed 700+ units and you said that was US sales???? I accept 1700+ for the SL500....Allante sold 6700 in 93." No chart or link I ever posted said anything like that. Period. It said (they MBUSA.COM) said 1721 sales for 1993. End of story. You said 700 or 800 in your confused state. The link didn't change from one posting ... Read More
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brightness04
The S280 wasn't sold here. Period. Your paragraph on this makes no sense at all. The RL has flopped in the marketplace so I'm done with it. Keep thinking it was compeitive with an S-Class or anthing else for that matter. The car has been a complete dud. "The engine is underpowered for its displacement; loud and lacking in smoothness compared to its primary competitors: Lexus/Toyota 3.0/3.3, Acura/Honda 3.0/3.2 and BMW ... Read More
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brightness04
Again, interesting points: "But even the 3.0 in the last iteration was DOHC VVTi as well; that had been around since the late 90's. MB is a generation or two behind the curve, which was exactly my main point." They had just retired their DOHC-VVT engines in 1997. It isn't like they hadn't done it before or couldn't they just changed directions, unlike what you're trying to imply here. They'd already ... Read More
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Re: brightness04 [merc1 #5550]
Interesting points, though not all valid. albeit most _are_ ;-) The 3.3L Toyota V6 is brand new compared to the Mercedes SOHC engine designs came out in 1997 for 1998 models. Everything changes and technology moves one hence Mercedes like anyone else is updating their engines after 6+ years on the market. But even the 3.0 in the last iteration was DOHC VVTi as well; that had been around since the ... Read More
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Re: brightness04 [brightness04 #5548]
Interesting points, though not all valid. The 3.3L Toyota V6 is brand new compared to the Mercedes SOHC engine designs came out in 1997 for 1998 models. Everything changes and technology moves one hence Mercedes like anyone else is updating their engines after 6+ years on the market. To say that 3.2L V6 in say the E320 is not a smooth running engine is complete bs. That engine and the 5 ... Read More
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no title
Merc, I think you've made a valid point about price...I read some years back (Like 1997) that an avg LS owner was in their mid fifties and earned $125K a year...Now, a 30K price difference between a 57K LS and a 80K S500 is probably going to be significant. I'm unsure of the MB demographics, but I wouldn't be surprised if the avg income of a S class owner was higher ... Read More
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no title
ljflx, "You are right that in the past the production car was a nearly 100% twin of the concept." Well, I wouldn't exactly call the Lexus HPS a concept car in 1997 or the 1st generation RX300 when it was shown in "concept" form. They really were not concepts. They were full production cars with basically the only differences being things like wheels and grilles. Also, I saw where that Lexus ... Read More
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footie
It's just like I said before if you can't count all those taxi Mercedes, then you can't count all those so-called "Lexuses" running around in other countries as leathered up Toyotas. We disagree on what makes a "luxury" car obviously. Leather doesn't define it for me. I'm not trying to say you don't know what you're talking about here, but with the engine thing you really would benefit from doing some ... Read More
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lenscap
So noted. I'm having a problem with the side view of the production car vs. the concept. It didn't quite hold up. mariner7, Actually Mercedes is going back to DOHC engine design, not just joining any bandwagon. Their last group of DOHC engines was from 1989-1997. pablo_l, I don't think of us are falling for any marketing labels, everyone clearly sees this is just a swoopier sedan, but that's what market ... Read More
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ljflx
Man we've been at this for a long time, I'd forgotten that we've had the "life decisions" conversation before. Imagine me reading that after all these years! I'm sure a high percentage of LS430 buyers can swing a S430, especially if they're leasing them. No doubt. I've always wanted to ask what town do you live in, it sounds like quite a place the place. Probably like what Naperville IL is ... Read More
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michael_mattox
Wow, you know what Mike, thats typical. Read the post again, very slowly....everyone else got that I was talking about the car mags except you. It clearly states in sentence #6 that I'm talking about the car mags. Read the entire paragraph before posting. ljflx, "The reason the auto mags don't want to deal with reliabilty in their analysis is partly because the last thing they want to do is bring ... Read More
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Potential Maybach Customer
Merc1 In the September issue of Road & Track's review of the Maybach to which you refer, there is also a boxed tidbit on the potential Mercedes Benz customer. It said the typical Mercedes Benz buyer had an annual income of two to three times the purchase price of the car or $250,000 and for the Maybach an annual income of $1 million or more. According to the IRS, Over 144,000 ... Read More
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1487
You've somehow let the others confuse you. Where did I use "ownership experience" in any of MY posts? Though since you bring up the concept, why don't you take a look at the SL500 board and see what the owners have to say. Are you saying that every SL has to go back to the dealer and that all MB dealers are arrogant? If that is the case all of Cadillac's ... Read More
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wishnhigh1
"Beat them how? In the opinions of Magazine editors? You yourself has denied the value of magazine comparisons, because of the strong desire to compare everything to BMW. So what else is there? " Obviously you haven't been paying attention, I said that I'm tired of magazines ranking cars below BMWs soley because of handling. If you read some of my other posts I usually more or less agree with MOST ... Read More
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no title
The only cars I see young people driving that are considered luxury are the BMW 3-series, the Mercedes C, and the IS300. I've never seen a young person driving a brand new Cadillac. Maybe in other regions things are different, but Cadillacs are not prevalent here, and those that are are base Devilles driven by older folks. Again, all this song and dance about what Cadillac is about to bring out ... Read More
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It's not a matter of opinion -- it's research and facts
On initial quality, year in and year out, Lexus, particularly the LS430 is the winner. It's initial defect level for the last 4 years was about 1/6th of what the MB are. In everyone of those years the entire Lexus line has swept the JDPower Initial quality awards. On Reliability, there is also no comparison. Consumer Reports ranks Lexus as Exceptional Reliability for the ES, GS, LS and RX. If you ... Read More
Mercedes-Benz S-Class
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Mercedes v. Lexus
I agree with v12power, the Benz may require more visits to the repair shop over a period of years, but in the end, if you're looking for what was arguably one of the best engineered cars out there, the Benz is the better choice. From what I've seen and what my mechanic says, the Benzes are more durable while the Lexuses are more reliable. I can vouch for that, our friend ... Read More
High End Luxury Cars
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ljflx
That's true....*somewhat*, but trust me I know that the LS430 won't be full redesigned until at least 2006. Not even Toyota could re-do the entire car from the ground up in just 2 years of being on the market, it simply doesn't make business sense. My postion on redo is that if a car is a great design it can last 5-7 years, look at the previous 7-Series and S-Class. To ... Read More
Mercedes-Benz S-Class
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S600 vs S55
Is the S600 worth the extra money over the S55, appart the fact that it might be more refined and "isolated". For what i have researched, evry option on the S-Class should be available on the S55 as well, even the leather dash, because I have seen pictures. For what I am concerned, the S55 is better because it is cheaper, faster (at least Mercedes Benz says so) and with an ... Read More
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