Indiana Ford Car Dealers

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ford lease end problems //nightmares: by cheatedtoo on Sat Aug 22 09:34:03 PDT 2009; I had leased Ford products for 10 years. I had never been charged for any damage (or so I was told) on any turn ins when I leased a new vehicle. When I turned in a Mustang I was told there was $1800 in damage but I would be charged $2200. I had a large body shop give me an off site estimate and their price was $425.00. for touch ups. I told the dealer I would not pay their estimate and I would the body shop do the touch ups. They said no. If I did not pay them their price they would turn me in to FMCC and they would ruin my credit.....they did. Three moths later I turned in an Explorer. I had it detailed and it was perfect. I owed for extra miles but, the dealer charged me for the mileage and $800 in body damage. I told them I would pay for the milage but not the fictitious damages. They said I would pay them all of it or they would turn in the full amount to Ford and if I did not pay them the full amount that FMCC would ruin my credit...they did. Now I was feeling like I was being a target of extortion. Just a few months later I turned in my F150 super crew...great truck. This time I was so angry I did not speak to anyone at the dealer and just dorpped it off. A week went by and my old salesman...the guy whom I had bought or leased 13 vehicles in 10 years from...called to ask the combo to get in the truck for the keys. I thought they kept that in a file. I was wrong. I told him to contact me with the final info. He or no one at the dealership ever did contact me. But a $17600.00 now the by out for the lease was $17500.00. I called them and ask how I could owe more than the pay off amount. They said they would send me copies of the dealer documents. When I looked at them I realized someone had changed the terms of my lease and falsly signed my initials in two different locations...actually it was two different sets of initials and not even close to mine. This change the amount of lease mile I paid for up front. I also found that the dealer had charged me for a bad engine ( it was not, I would as an engine mechanic in a dealership and have substaintial engine experience) and $4600 in body damage for scratches in the bed an whatever. I was a lie....I have pictures of when I turned it in. FMCC said if I did not pay the full amount they would attach my credit file. I told them of the altered lease and sent them a copy of my original. They took off $3500 of the charges but, not for their previous amount of $17600 but instead the took it off an aount of the dealer "turn in sheet" of $18150.00, an amount they previously did not approve. I told them it did not have the engine and body damges I was charged for. They provided me their documents that supported my claim of false damage claims but, said I had to pay them whatever they said of they would ruin my credit....they did This has gone on for 6 years and they continue to stall. I have since found other cheated by this dealer. Do you have any ideas how to correct this or have you had simmilar problems? Please respond to me here in the subject window Thanks for your help

Re: DECISION??? [lbond1]: by lbond1 on Mon Jul 06 13:15:43 PDT 2009; what would be my target price before any incentives or trade ins? This is an almost one year old car and the old body style if that counts.

Re: Carman: Lease Loyalty Question [djhalptert]: by baggs32 on Mon Mar 09 10:03:53 PDT 2009; I bought a $30,000 Explorer in 2003 for $18,600 WITH ZERO DOWN, NO TRADE-IN. I mentioned it because you got $2,000 off your MSRP and I got over $11,000. I've seen final buy-down rebates of $8000+ for Explorers recently but by that time leases are over for the MY. Again, not helpful. $1,500 in negative equity raised your payment $30. Like I said, DIDN'T DRASTICALLY AFFECT PAYMENT. Quit making excuses why you got ripped off on your lease. I don't feel I was ripped off. I feel I got a fair price and I can live with that. If you can't then have fun pinching your pennies the rest of your life. YOU DON'T PAY THE TOTAL OF ALL MONTHLY PAYMENTS LEFT! i.e. if your payment is $500 per month and you have 4 months left, your lease buyout isn't $2,000. Your lease buyout is determined solely on three things. Firstly, the depreciation fee. Secondly, a mileage adjustment. Thirdly, the real world value of the vehicle. Yeah, that's one option if the trade-in value is anywhere near the balance you owe which is not the case on any SUV today. The other option is to pay your remaining payments (see option 2 below). You might know how to negotiate better prices but please don't try to fool all of us into thinking you know everything about leasing. From the Ford Credit site: "Early Vehicle Return * Return the vehicle to the original dealer * Sign a Vehicle Condition Report and Odometer Statement * Pay one of the following amounts, whichever is less 1. The difference, if any, between the Current Balance (see below) and the Fair Market Wholesale Value of the vehicle, plus an early termination fee (except California and some Wisconsin leases), plus all other amounts then due under the lease. The Fair Market Wholesale Value will be determined at your option by one of the three following methods: 1. An amount agreed to by you and the originating dealer, or 2. The net amount received by Ford Credit upon the sale of the vehicle at wholesale auction, or 3. An amount determined by a professional independent appraiser (the appraiser must be agreeable to Ford Credit and will be at your expense) OR 2. The sum of the remaining unpaid lease payments, plus any excess wear and use and mileage charges, and all other amounts then due under the lease." Have you looked back at posts in this thread by chance? Show me where anyone had a payment better than what I was quoted. And no, 2009 models have not been on the lots for 7 months now. Two local dealers finally received their first 2009 Explorers which have been in production for roughly 6 months now. There are several loaded Flex Limiteds around that have been sitting for a while but even with a great deal I'm not sure I'd want one. Everything else has been kept at low stock levels and new copies don't arrive until the old ones are gone. It sounds like you have one of those mega dealers near you if you can see '09s sitting around since August. I don't have one of those near me, at least not one that sells Fords, so it's pretty stable right now. You really and truly have to understand the differences in markets before handing out advice you take to be universal. I guess that's why we all ask carman for his thoughts and not you.

Re: Carman: Lease Loyalty Question [baggs32]: by djhalptert on Sun Mar 08 12:20:14 PDT 2009; Ask anyone in the forum, X-Plan, or it's equivalent (GM, Chrysler, Subaru, etc.) is an absolute rip off in this buying climate or even 2 years ago for that matter. In case you don't own a calendar, most of the 2009's have been sitting on the car lots since around August. That's 7 months of depreciation. To have to pay OVER invoice right now is absolutely absurd. Big deal you save the $495 acquisition fee and maybe a document fee. The dealers are dying to sell/lease you a car right now. Again, ASK ANYONE. Unless you are using the discount for a Mustang V-8 or F-250 Super Duty it is ridiculous. As to all of your rebuttals, 1. My brother leased a 2006 X3 with only security deposit down for $509. That is why I mentioned it. 2. $1,500 in negative equity raised your payment $30. Like I said, DIDN'T DRASTICALLY AFFECT PAYMENT. Quit making excuses why you got ripped off on your lease. It wasn't because of the negative equity. 3. I bought a $30,000 Explorer in 2003 for $18,600 WITH ZERO DOWN, NO TRADE-IN. I mentioned it because you got $2,000 off your MSRP and I got over $11,000. Rule #1 of leasing, negotiate a SELLING PRICE FIRST. Then tell them you want to lease. (of course you can't do this if you are using X-Plan, another reason why it is USELESS.) 4. You can't turn your lease in "because your payments are so high they can't absorb the residual." TRUE. If you knew anything about leasing, which you obviously don't, you would know how a lease buyout works. YOU DON'T PAY THE TOTAL OF ALL MONTHLY PAYMENTS LEFT! i.e. if your payment is $500 per month and you have 4 months left, your lease buyout isn't $2,000. Your lease buyout is determined solely on three things. Firstly, the depreciation fee. Secondly, a mileage adjustment. Thirdly, the real world value of the vehicle. Big deal your residual was 52%. Doesn't matter. If you would've negotiated a better selling price instead of using X-Plan your payment would be $350 a month instead of $500. The buyout would be worst case scenario $250 (depreciation amount) X 4 months = -$1,000. YOU DON'T HAVE TO WRITE A CHECK FOR THE BALANCE OF YOUR REMAINING PAYMENTS TO TRADE YOUR LEASE IN EARLY. YOU DON'T PAY THE SALES TAX OR RENT CHARGE FOR THE MONTHS YOU BUYOUT! 5. You are apparently one of the many people on this forum who go into a dealership and just take their word for everything. Just becuase they seemingly won't budge off their first offer doesn't mean you can't get a lower price. It just means you have to try harder. If you don't want to play their games, have fun paying $500 a month on a $350 vehicle. If you can't find an honest dealer locally branch out a little. Go 250 miles or more outside of your area. The amount of money you spend on gas there and back WILL be saved in one LOWER monthly payment. Plus, you will find that the selection of vehicles greatly improves as you look further outside your immediate area.

Re: Employee Pricing Lease Deal [sammin]: by Car_man on Tue Dec 02 02:40:00 PST 2008; You're welcome, sammin. I doubt that the Employee Pricing promotion has anything to do with the value of your trade. Used vehicle prices are falling at the fastest pace that I have ever seen right now. They are dropping so rapidly that a local chain of dealers in my neck of the woods recently instructed its managers not to take any trade-ins. The dealer is probably just being conservative in quoting you a price for your trade, and rightfully so in the current economic environment. Car_man Host Prices Paid: Buying & Leasing Experiences Forum

Re: confused about trade in [smeans]: by seloo on Sat Nov 22 16:15:29 PST 2008; Smeans, Agree, this car is not a good value with the current pricing plan. Since the car is being discontinued, I would wait and see what happens. When they killed the Freestyle, Ford offer huge discounts to get them off the lots. As for your trade, SUVs are out! Dealers have always (with few exceptions) used the wholesale value for trade-ins. They tell many people that they are giving them more for their trade, but make-up the numbers in other parts of the deal. Much depended on how good the used car market was for that model. With wholesale prices so low, they cannot afford to overpay for a car. Under the employee plan, the dealers are making a pre-established % of the sale. If you added up the saving of the employee pricing + rebates + the dealer's set %, this car is still not a good deal!!! Good Luck!

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