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Re: Wow! [drfill]
Written by: brightness04 on Mar 7, 2007 3:48:13 PM
Didn't know BMW was having this much trouble moving the metal! There was definitely change in the wind, in the last couple years, first with the 7 and 5, then even the 3 starting last year. Cars that used to command nearly full MSRP became heavily discounted and subsidized. I have been repeatedly pointing out the unusual lease subsidies that have been happening, signifying underlying weakness. Glad to be vindicated by ... Read More
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Re: OAC [oac]
Written by: hpowders on Mar 3, 2007 3:55:39 PM
Well, Oac, it's nice to see you are considering a BMW vehicle. Instead of an M, I would check out the 335i coupe: M-like power (0-60 mph in 5.5 seconds) and BMW's best-looking vehicle, IMO. The reviews have been universally ecstatic. FYI, the 335i convertible goes on sale this spring. My 2005 545 has been flawless after 20 months and I do believe CR gave it an "unreliable" rating. Plenty of ... Read More
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La Verdad!
Written by: hpowders on Feb 8, 2007 3:01:38 PM
European news from our insider, JLBL!! "The best seller brand in the LPS, HELC and luxury SUV niche altogether was BMW in 2005 and 2006!" The Chris Bangle revolution continues world-wide! I wish Edmunds had an emotorcon illustrating "bursting with pride." PS: It may be warm in Spain but it just got a little warmer at the other LPS and HELC corporate offices!
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Re: You are welcome
Written by: jlbl on Feb 8, 2007 11:53:57 AM
brightness04, houdini1, dhamilton, Thank you so much for your kind welcome. brightness04, Spain is warm all year round :) , but right now is snowing on it. Madrid is at the same parallel than New York City. If you come in winter, be prepared to some cold . Anyhow, nothing to compare to the snow storms of many regions in the USA. Now, a small piece of European news. The best ... Read More
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Re: Well, [blkhemi]
Written by: brightness04 on Jan 24, 2007 6:14:17 PM
Oh and by the way, when China(not if) gets their way, they will be the number one market in the world by 2010/11, and what is the number one selling HELM in that country. Yes, it's true, the very second-rate, non-worthy(as you'd put it) Audi A8. Okay, let's put some numbers into perspective. How many A8's does that supposed #1 in China amount to? less than 2000 cars in a year. ... Read More
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Re: Doc [tagman]
Written by: brightness04 on Jan 24, 2007 5:55:34 PM
Audi market share in HELC is not just small; it's next to non-existent. You can find the most recent monthly and annual sales number: http://www.aicautosite.com/editoria/asmr/svsedan.asp Lexus LS460/430 sold 3865 in December, 26k in 2005; MB S class 2987 in December, 16k in 2005, 31k in 2006; BMW 7 series over 2k in November, 18k in 2005; Audi A8? 323 in Dec, 557 in Nov, about 5k for both 05/06 Audi is ... Read More
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Re: hpowders [tagman]
Written by: hpowders on Jan 16, 2007 7:10:45 PM
There is nothing about maximum time allowed between service intervals. Of course, the computer takes into account mileage as the main factor. I have driven the 545 13,600 miles. Apparently 14k is the mileage number for the first oil change. Opening the iDrive, I see all future possible maintenance work listed (rear brake pads, front brake pads, brake fluid, spark plugs, micro filter, vehicle check, etc;) and their current "status." Everything ... Read More
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The C&D Comparo
Written by: hpowders on Dec 25, 2006 4:55:57 AM
Now that the complete C&D HELC comparo has been posted on the C&D website, the sour grapes spin has begun. For example, the entire test should be considered "invalid" since C&D should have announced it was testing a pre-production model of the Lexus LS460L. I wonder, if the LS460L came in first place instead of last, would the same critic of the comparo be noting that the result might not be ... Read More
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Re: Ward's 10 Best Engines [tagman]
Written by: hpowders on Dec 9, 2006 8:29:40 AM
Well, I only need one. My wife doesn't drive but if I can talk her into getting her license, I will have "almost two." One good thing; my wife has become totally accustomed to BMW's and wants nothing else. She protested loudly when I test drove the LS430 and GS430 in 2005. BMW offers 2 year leases on all their vehicles, no exceptions, with incredibly high residuals of 72% or better ... Read More
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Re: BBC Top Gear Survey 2005 [houdini1]
Written by: dewey on Dec 6, 2006 5:48:53 PM
Houdini, with all due respect these results merely confirm what we all already know. . Lexus has consistently won consumer satisfaction surveys for almost 17 years by not one surveyor but various surveryors like JD Powers, Consumrers Report, Strategic Vision and last but not least Top Gear. Kudos for Lexus! I knew these results for years and chose a BMW instead. Why? Because I dont need a customer survey to tell ... Read More
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BBC Top Gear Survey 2005
Written by: houdini1 on Dec 6, 2006 1:35:05 PM
76,050 people, 159 car models from 36 manufacturers-It's the U.K.'s biggest independent car satisfaction survey. Top Gear Survey 2005- Each of the 76,050 viewers and readers who took part in our survey this year were asked to reveal how every aspect of the car ownership experience matched up to the expectations they had when they first took delivery of their vehicle. Each car is given an overall satisfaction score out of ... Read More
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Canadian Sales Results for November
Written by: tagman on Dec 2, 2006 3:58:09 PM
Dewey, just for you - Here is the complete list of Canadian sales results for the month of November. The overall market was up 2.7% compared to November 2005. Winners (November 2006 vs. November 2005) Acura - up 27.9% (down 5.6% YTD) Audi - up 12.5% (up 13.3% YTD) BMW - up 3.8% (up 11.1% YTD) DaimlerChrysler - up 8.4% (down 0.1% YTD) Ford - up 15.4% (up 8.4% YTD) Honda ... Read More
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November Sales Data for Lexus LS and Mercedes S-Class
Written by: jcoby on Dec 1, 2006 3:52:12 PM
Lexus and Mercedes-Benz have their sales data on their websites and is as follows (I found Lexus data at Toyota website): Lexus link title The LS 430 and the all-new LS 460 reported combined sales of 3,613, an increase of 116.3 percent. Mercedes link title (You will have to select December's data) Sales of the newest generation S-Class were nearly double this month over last November (2,780 vs. 1,400) I wonder ... Read More
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Re: People... [lexusguy]
Written by: hpowders on Nov 3, 2006 2:30:44 PM
Well anecdotally speaking, I have had 3 BMW's since 1993 with no computer glitches. Never any lag. I only experienced this on 2 2005 LS430's. Ocassionally, I have come home from intense parties and the BMW pinwheel appeared to be spinning, but I do not attribute that to any BMW computer glitches.
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Re: "Taste Of Lexus" Review... [psychdoc]
Written by: hpowders on Oct 23, 2006 8:59:37 AM
As a BMW person, I care only slightly about the BMW interior and if you consider the Bangle effect "ugly", I care not a whit, nor would the vast majority of driving enthusiasts. BMW could do whatever they want with the exterior and interior, so long as they leave the world-class driving experience alone; its unique Gestalt, which nobody competing in the ELLPS, LPS and HELM realms have been able to ... Read More
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LS460L
Written by: syswei on Oct 22, 2006 3:46:08 AM
There's an interesting early owner review on CL from a fellow who also owns a 2004 Phaeton and 2005 E55. He says among other things: 1. The Phaeton is bigger... 2. The Phaeton has more "road-hugging weight"... 3. The Phaeton cabin feels significantly wider, with commensurately greater shoulder room... 4. The Phaeton trunk is larger and more usable (our LS460L has the Tiny Trunk option)...[rear a/c and icebox] 5. A few ... Read More
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Re: Strategic Vision Survey [dewey]
Written by: hpowders on Oct 15, 2006 7:07:16 PM
Well, I took the same vow you did with just a few word changes to make it a legal oath in the USA. ;) At the beginning of 2005, I drove the GS300, GS430, M35, and M45. I liked the GS300 best of that bunch, only it tended to lurch forward with the slightest touch of the gas pedal, its cabin was cramped and the trunk bordered on laughable. I next ... Read More
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Re: Strategic Vision Survey [houdini1]
Written by: dewey on Oct 14, 2006 8:50:19 PM
Houdini that is just one survey on VALUE . You conveniently forgot the most important Strategic Vision survey that measures the most important measurement of owning a car: SATISFACTION. And BMW is number one in terms of satisfaction. Hyundais ,Lexuses and Honda Civics provide value. Based on Strategic Visions surverys car owners are more satisfied with overpriced BMWs than with bland value cars like Lexuses. You want value go to Lexus. ... Read More
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Re: BMW Buffoonery [dewey]
Written by: tagman on Sep 2, 2006 4:23:24 PM
Ok let us try going a bit below the surface. I linked the 2005 BMW Anuual Report below: Where's ljflx when we need him? ;) TagMan
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Re: BMW Buffoonery [tagman]
Written by: dewey on Sep 2, 2006 2:57:21 PM
Ok let us try going a bit below the surface. I linked the 2005 BMW Anuual Report below: link title The Annual Report is in Euro so you will have to convert the currency values. Currently one Euro is worth 1.28 US$. 2005 BMW R&D = 2.9 Billion Euros 2005 BMW Sales & Admin = 3.9 Billion Euros 2005 BMW Profit Before Tax = 3.2 Billion Euros Unfortunately advertizing is embedded ... Read More
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Re: Score Card for International Awards [dewey]
Written by: reality2 on Aug 10, 2006 7:44:20 PM
So far the Germans dominate this award which an interesting commentary: 2005: Audi A6-line 2006: BMW 3-Series ..and for definition, the award does not apply to the carmaker as a whole, but to a specific model. So, BMW did not win World Car of the Year as a brand, only the 3-Series for 2006.
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Re: I Will... [hpowders]
Written by: lexusguy on Aug 6, 2006 9:55:55 AM
But LG seems to think the new G35 Coupe will be a serious threat to the 335i Coupe in the USA. Sorry, LG-I just don't see it happening. Oh no? BMW sold 72 330Cis in July, and 256 325Cis. Infiniti sold 2,090 G35 coupes. Infiniti is no threat, eh? You can whine that the BMW coupe is end-of-life, but so is the G. July 2005 sales for BMW 325Ci, 328. 330i, ... Read More
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Re: BMW Misguided Approach [merc1]
Written by: lexusguy on Aug 3, 2006 5:06:18 AM
I really think AMG has turned a corner literally because Auto Zeitung got the facelifted SL55 AMG around the track faster (by 1.6 secs) than the BMW M6. This caused quite an uproar on some of the other boards I frequent. Auto, Motor und Sport also recently put the E63 AMG over the M5. I like how the AMGs are relatively simple machines, stomp on the pedal and they go. With ... Read More
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Re: Actually, [syswei]
Written by: merc1 on Aug 2, 2006 4:22:13 AM
I haven't really been reading what all the fuss is about with the surveys this time around, but I do think JDP should have broken the IQS into two surveys because certain brands (like BMW) rank differently when you break down the two categories they used this year: A little something I saw on MBWorld.org, someone posted the breakout for the study: Auto news More rankings June 8, 2006 Email this ... Read More
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Re: Everybody [blkhemi]
Written by: syswei on Aug 1, 2006 2:39:18 PM
I don't think anyone believes that Lexus is problem-free, or that every MB breaks down frequently. And that isn't what JDP or CR actually show. They only show that Lexus, Porsche, and other brands are relatively reliable as compared to MB. For instance the 2005 JDP VDS (here) shows Lexus had 139 problems per 100 vehicles (not zero) and MB had 283 (not 1000). CR is consistent with numbers like that ... Read More
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Re: Least Reliable luxury [dewey]
Written by: lexusguy on Jul 31, 2006 8:49:16 AM
Here is a list of the least reliable luxury autos ?(there are no MBs, BMWs, Audis or Porsches on the list) Here's a more world reliability view. Good results for Porsche, Jag, and BMW, and pretty good for Audi. Still very poor for Mercedes. Only the French cars and Fiat were worse. The M class came in an amazing 155th of 159 models. http://www.topgear.com/content/features/stories/2005/11/stories/01/3.html
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Re: Merc [oac]
Written by: merc1 on Jun 19, 2006 10:54:46 PM
GaryH, thanks for that real-world post. Same thing I have said repeatedly here. The LS does NOT handle like a boat. Put an 18" rim on that car and see how it handles. How many auto mag comparos have ever tested the LS w/18" rims ? Almost none.... But those who have this on their LS can attest to its handling ability. This is from actual owners, you know, the one ... Read More
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Re: Sources: Porsche, Hyundai make big gains in quality study [lexusguy]
Written by: syswei on Jun 7, 2006 1:25:17 PM
Thanks for the link. For comparison, the 2005 chart is here. The declines posted by MB and BMW from 05 to 06 are almost appalling. I wonder what accounts for the declines? Porsche's improvement from the prior year is just amazing.
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BMW Sales Report
Written by: hpowders on Jun 1, 2006 4:05:08 PM
The 7 series sales were only up 5.5% over May 2005. The 5 series sales, however, were up a stunning 34% over May 2005. BMW: Listen to the numbers! You do not make the requisite bloated luxo-barge which is what most HELM buyers expect. Get out of this market and concentrate on creating serious challengers to the Boxster and 911. That's where you belong!
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Re: Merc [drfilll]
Written by: merc1 on May 16, 2006 10:19:29 PM
Doc you're confused. I know you didn't bring up the $50k CLK as a C320 coupe! YOU can't wait to announce it as a SC430 competitor, and superior at that. The CLK and C-Class sedan share a platform, and that's about it. Yeah I did as to say that the CLK's sales aren't counted in the C-Class like BMW counts their 3-Series coupes in with their sedan. The CLK shares its ... Read More
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Re: Performance vs. Luxury [tagman]
Written by: merc1 on Apr 26, 2006 10:34:14 PM
Nothing really on the next-generation CLK just yet. All the info I've post in futures MB models thread is partly gleamed from dedicated MB sites and just knowing how MB operates. Once a new engine appears it will soon be placed into everything in some form or another. Facelifts come anywhere between 3-4 years redesigns for most models in 7...really not that hard to predict what MB will do. SLK appears ... Read More
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LJ
Written by: drfill on Apr 13, 2006 7:18:16 PM
That was my point in Post #14802. In August 2005, BMW had only sold 382 760Li, YTD. They sold 46 this January, 54 last January. I'll presume Mercedes is selling 100-300% of that, so lets give an S600 1500 sales a year? Could a LS600L get 1000 in 8 months of 2007? Maybe. I think outselling the 760 should be an initial goal, then we'll reassess. With the Hybrid tech, AWD ... Read More
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Tagman
Written by: drfill on Apr 4, 2006 6:50:06 PM
No need to be hostile. :) I'm just sayin' the IS is better looking than the already good-looking 3-series. I have no malice agianst BMW or the 3, and I am willing to admit that the 3 is a better sports sedan, mostly because it is more space efficient, and it is not set-up to dissuade spirited driving, in the chassis, or in the tranny. Lexus accomplished what they wanted, making ... Read More
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Re: R-Class [ljflx]
Written by: merc1 on Feb 3, 2006 8:34:53 AM
Won't argue with you at all on this one but in my mind the CLS probably cannibalizes other Benz sales a lot more than anything else. Is it a co-incidence that E-class sales go down as the CLS comes out. If not otherwise than who is the CLS stealing sales from? From my perspective if you need both the E and the CLS to stay even or rise slightly with past ... Read More
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Re: Merc [merc1]
Written by: syswei on Feb 3, 2006 7:03:35 AM
You think the Lexus would have gone for a 100hp leap from the LS430 to the LS460 if the new S550 didn't have 382hp? ...I clearly remember on the 2007 LS board [drfill]saying that they won't go for more than 30-40hp gain with the new LS, and that likely would have been the case until the S550 was shown last Sept with 382hp. Merc1, the car companies are to some extent ... Read More
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Re: Merc [callmedrfill]
Written by: merc1 on Feb 2, 2006 9:34:07 PM
Problem is Mercedes, in the US, is clearly reactionary, not setting the market anymore. When it comes to SUVs that is clearly the case, but with their cars that isn't nearly as true. The CLS proves that Mercedes still has the ability to open a market or create one for a unique product. Now watch as others including Porsche follow. Whether or not you want to admit it the S-Class still ... Read More
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Re: No Change... [tagman]
Written by: merc1 on Feb 1, 2006 6:59:18 PM
Seperately from the stats, don't you agree that the line-up needs some quicker freshening, and maybe even a little "housekeeping" in a couple of spots? Sure. A new C-Class and a facelifted E-Class would help a lot. BMW and Lexus have the advantage of having newer sedans in each category, especially Lexus. As DrFill points out all of Lexus' 4-doors are new for either the 2006 or 2007 model year. That ... Read More
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Sales Reports In The USA
Written by: hpowders on Feb 1, 2006 3:24:14 PM
Sales of the BMW 7 series increased 23.3% since January 2005. On the other hand, sales of the Mercedes Benz S-Class decreased 13.3% since January 2005. As a side note, sales of the E60 were up a whopping 42.8% since January 2005! The BMW success story continues to unfold, thanks in no small part to Chris Bangle and his amazing designs.
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BMW looks healthy
Written by: tagman on Jan 27, 2006 6:48:13 PM
Interesting info: German automaker BMW AG reported a 5.2 per cent rise in 2005 net sales to 46.66 billion euros ($57.28 billion US), exceeding analysts' expectations. Analysts had been predicting overall sales of 46.3 billion euros ($56.84 billion), and BMW shares rose 2.3 per cent to close at 36.79 euros ($45.21) in Frankfurt trading. The Bavarian automaker said it sold a record 1,327,992 cars in 2005, up 9.9 per cent on ... Read More
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2006 Detroit Autoshow Report!
Written by: merc1 on Jan 18, 2006 11:23:29 PM
Well I'm back. I see I haven't missed anything, but 325+ posts about the same stuff we've been arguing about for years now it seems!! I may or may not go back through all of those posts to respond to some of the more curious items. Anyway, down to business. This year's NAIAS was without a doubt the best I've ever been too. The sheer number of new cars and stunning ... Read More
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Stats and Spins
Written by: oac on Jan 16, 2006 2:51:11 PM
Stats: MB: 95-2000=99%, 2000-2005=20% BMW: 95-2000=46%, 2000-2005=45% Lexus: 95-2000=28%, 2000-2005=49% MB sales/growth goes from 99% --> 20% BMW sales/growth goes from 46% --> 45% Lexus sales/growth goes from 28% --> 49% OK, we got the stats.... Now comes the spin German cars are doing fantastic... Take out the cars, and they are far out-growing Lexus... Jurgen was MB's problem, and now that he is out, its full steam ahead for MB ... Read More
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Lies, Damn Lies, and Statistics
Written by: docnukem on Jan 16, 2006 12:19:58 PM
The scary thing for MB is the relative rate of growth. Cars only: MB: 95-2000=99%, 2000-2005=20% BMW: 95-2000=46%, 2000-2005=45% Lexus: 95-2000=28%, 2000-2005=49% As you can see, you can make the numbers say whatever you want them to say.
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Re: Sales..... [dewey]
Written by: syswei on Jan 16, 2006 12:11:17 PM
You're spinning in a very German way. What the 5 year numbers show is that BMW is indeed "holding its own" vs Lexus, in cars. But does 20% unit growth for MB, when BMW and Lexus grew 45% and 49% (in cars), mean MB is "holding its own"? Do you think the MB USA execs are patting themselves on the back for that? long term stats of 10 years indicates the ... Read More
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Re: Sales..... [docnukem]
Written by: syswei on Jan 16, 2006 12:00:34 PM
well anyway here are the 5-year numbers, for CARS ONLY, as the germancarfans prefer: BMW 2000: 135,983... 2005: 197,833 up 45% MB 2000: 152,850... 2005: 183,169 up 20% Lexus 2000: 101,441... 2005: 151,226 up 49% Any questions?
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Re: Sales..... [syswei]
Written by: jrock65 on Jan 16, 2006 11:11:57 AM
Thanks for the link. 10 year car growth: BMW 1995: 93,309... 2005: 197,833 up 112% MB 1995: 76,752... 2005: 183,169 up 139% Lexus 1995: 79,334... 2005: 151,226 up 91% It's interesting to see that in the past 10 years, MB and BMW car sales have been increasing at a faster rate than Lexus car sales. Lexus kills MB and BMW in SUV sales though. It was smart of them to capitalize ... Read More
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Re: A Question? [dewey]
Written by: brightness04 on Jan 16, 2006 9:56:36 AM
The riddle is quite easily solved: Lexus brand simply did not exist in Japan until the last third of 2005. In other words, there has not yet been a full model year history of Lexus in Japan. Of course the German luxury brands dominate the market when Lexus, Infiniti and Acura are all absent; what do you expect? Cadillac or Lincoln domination? The reality is that the four Toyota sedan models ... Read More
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Re: Sales..... [scott1256]
Written by: syswei on Jan 16, 2006 8:28:14 AM
MB just completed their 12th consecutive year of increased sales in the USA. BMW has a stellar track record too. The success of Lexus doesn't mean BMW/MB are out of the picture. No they're not out of the picture, nor do I expect that to happen, however Lexus has and imho will continue to gain market share. Some others were asking about "where Lexus' share has come from" and I couldn't ... Read More
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MB TREMENDOUS sales increase???
Written by: lexusi on Jan 15, 2006 2:00:43 PM
Although in my IMHO I do not judge the car by its sales, but thats why manufacturers produce cars? to sell no to display?! anyhow, Lexus sales were shown against BMW sales, and here is the other part of the story, the MB sales (USA only), lets see how tremendous it is! yah BTW, here is an intersting point: "Posting its best sales month with 31,192 units sold in December, MBUSA ... Read More
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Re: MB, BMW?? what else you have? [designman]
Written by: oac on Jan 15, 2006 12:02:08 PM
Lexus went from 0 sales in 1989 to 300K+ sales by end of 2005. Sure the market expanded, new markets created, some died, but these sales are outstanding by any measure. So much that Lexus became #1 luxury nameplate 6 years running. Someone is losing market to Lexus. And as MY2007 rolls in later this year, the IS will win more sales, the GS is holding its own, and the new ... Read More
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Re: Dewey....a proposal [bdr127]
Written by: syswei on Jan 14, 2006 3:32:30 PM
You should really check the facts before you state "facts" that you "believe" And YOU should actually READ the post carefully if you are going to go so far as to criticize it. I said the ratio had increased "over the past 5 or so years", NOT that the ratio had increased over EACH of the past 5 or so years. So, here are the facts: BMW 7-series 2005 units: 18,165 ... Read More
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Re: Soul Train [oac]
Written by: bdr127 on Jan 13, 2006 4:01:39 PM
An overpriced Toyota, eh ? Good one. But I thought you wanted to give the car a spin, No ? Now it appears you are bitter against it, slaming it. Won't be the first time a German fan has called all Lexus vehicles as over-priced Toyota.... Now Lexus (ehm, overpriced Toyota) is the #1 selling luxury nameplate in America. Good for them... We've been over this before, but both BMW and ... Read More
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Re: Soul Train [oac]
Written by: hpowders on Jan 13, 2006 1:14:32 PM
Interesting how you presume to know that our host Pat must be a "he." I would bet against you on that one, but that is really neither here nor there. The new Toyota LS460 will have a long way to go to displace the BMW 760Li in luxury and performance. Toyota is playing catch-up. BMW surely isn't. Hey, Merc1 doesn't even own a Mercedes but his posts about Mercedes and the ... Read More
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A Shift in Gears..........
Written by: merc1 on Jan 11, 2006 11:10:13 PM
What are everyone's predictions for 2006 brandwise? What new products does everyone's fav brand have on the way (that we somewhat know about that is)? I'll start with the two most popular first. BMW - 300K+ units for 2006? The 3-Series continues its rollout and will save BMW's overall sales picture from the pending downturn in 7-Series sales. (a new S is in town). E-Class and 5-Series will duke it out ... Read More
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Re: Percentage leased... [dewey]
Written by: brightness04 on Jan 10, 2006 12:54:22 AM
Excellent point. 75 to 85% leased sounds like mere hearsay to me. Scott's 50% number was very much pulled out of thin air. Look at this article: http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20050410/news_1b10leasing.html It cites BMW dealership number at roughly 70%. That was early April 2005, before the flurry of subsidized lease deals came out late in the year. I'd be very surprised if less than 75% (if not 90%) of MB acquired in December were ... Read More
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Percentage leased... [ljflx]
Written by: scott1256 on Jan 9, 2006 10:40:03 AM
I think it is more like 50-55% leased, not 75-85%. IIRC Auto Week had an article stating 52% of BMWs were leased as of mid-2005. Anyone have an accurate source for leasing data?
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Re: 2005 sales [brightness04]
Written by: tagman on Jan 9, 2006 9:58:53 AM
By the looks of the new LS, the new S-class is obsolete on arrival; This is pathetic. No matter how good the LS might turn out to be in its own right, the new S-Class will deservedly be a successful vehicle for Mercedes, and you can bank on that. Let's all be clear about this. The LS is going to sell well, but it is RIDICULOUS to spin it into something ... Read More
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Re: 2005 sales [merc1]
Written by: oac on Jan 9, 2006 9:06:14 AM
This is more like it, Merc1... Good one. On paper at least the LS460 makes the S450, 750, A8 and XJ all seem pointless, but the proof is in the driving and real world evaluations... There are core MB, BMW, Jag, Audi buyers regardless of what the other competition is doing. However, its the swing buyers that can really impact this sector's leadership. Seemed like we do agree tho' that the ... Read More
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Re: 2005 sales [brightness04]
Written by: merc1 on Jan 8, 2006 11:41:56 PM
Posting a content-free response like that, and you call my post "spin and bs"?? What exactly is MB and BMW's competitor to ES330 if it is not 325i, 525i, C240/280 and E320? Those account for the bulk of 3/5/C/E sales just like ES and RX accounting for the bulk of entry-price and mid-size sedan and wagon sales for Lexus. More of the same. The ES is a fwd, blue-hair vehicle. Nobody ... Read More
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Re: 2005 sales [merc1]
Written by: brightness04 on Jan 8, 2006 11:28:02 PM
All spin and bs not really worth responding to. The IS and GS you say - "were performance extensions of ES and RX mainstream cars". Dude that is so ridiculous it doesn't warrant a response. Totally ridiculous. Posting a content-free response like that, and you call my post "spin and bs"?? What exactly is MB and BMW's competitor to ES330 if it is not 325i, 525i, C240/280 and E320? Those account ... Read More
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Re: 2005 sales [brightness04]
Written by: merc1 on Jan 8, 2006 11:01:02 PM
Neither IS nor GS were intended to beat 3, 5, C or E on their own. IS and GS were performance extensions of ES and RX mainstream cars. ES and RX competed against 325, 525, C240, C280, E320 and their wagon variants; IS and GS competed against 330i, 530i, 545i, C320, and E500. If anything, one might make the argument that BMW and MB copy each other's product lineups, replete with ... Read More
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Re: 2005 sales [merc1]
Written by: brightness04 on Jan 8, 2006 10:48:44 PM
Which still didn't amount to beating their competitors from BMW and Mercedes. Period. Neither IS nor GS were intended to beat 3, 5, C or E on their own. IS and GS were performance extensions of ES and RX mainstream cars. ES and RX competed against 325, 525, C240, C280, E320 and their wagon variants; IS and GS competed against 330i, 530i, 545i, C320, and E500. If anything, one might make ... Read More
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Re: 2005 sales [brightness04]
Written by: merc1 on Jan 8, 2006 10:32:12 PM
Previous generation IS and GS did very well in their first years, far more than 14k units sold for each of them. Which still didn't amount to beating their competitors from BMW and Mercedes. Period. Oh, let me guess, Lexus' staff quit and the production lines couldn't handle any more output. Pluhlease. Didn't you say Jaguar and others were trying to make copies and competitions to CLS?? How many times do ... Read More
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Re: 2005 sales [merc1]
Written by: brightness04 on Jan 8, 2006 10:19:38 PM
Tell you what I'm done with this whole ridiculous arguement about the IS, GS and CLS. Very convincing argument . . . not! The simple facts remains that those cars were failures until new versions arrived during 2005. So are you done or not done?? You are rebutting your first paragraph with your second paragraph in the same post now? Previous generation IS and GS did very well in their first ... Read More
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Re: 2005 sales [oac]
Written by: merc1 on Jan 8, 2006 9:47:30 PM
Merc1: You must have been writing this on your way out to Detroit, eh ? So much venom against Lexus..... Obviously, you habor a deep resentment towards Lexus' success over your vaunted German brand. That's OK... All the put-downs about Lexus isn't stopping its match towards increased market share, be it against MB or BMW. No, actually I was replying to a previous post. Secondly, all your off-base assumptions and continued ... Read More
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Re: 2005 sales [merc1]
Written by: oac on Jan 8, 2006 1:05:36 AM
Well considering Mercedes the oldest carmaker around and new segments don't come along that often I'd say they've done pretty well to inpsire the creation of whole brands of synthetic cars with a copycat flagship to go along with it. Mercedes has proven itself time and time again over the years. Question is what segment has Lexus conqured? Lexus is the biggest wannabe in the automotive world, now switching their envy ... Read More
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Re: 2005 sales [lexusguy]
Written by: brightness04 on Jan 7, 2006 10:10:52 PM
IMHO, Lexus was running out of staff with all the core product updates with RX, ES, LS plus new products like GX and hybrids. The Gen1 IS was literally a stop-gap measure; Lexus was probably surprised by the rapid rise of BMW (set against the back drop of MB's decline all the more dramatic) just like everyone else.
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Re: 2005 sales [merc1]
Written by: lexusguy on Jan 7, 2006 9:44:27 PM
Er.. the '98-05 car was generation 2. The first GS had a short '93-'97 run, with no updates of any kind. Gen 2 ran '98-'00, and with a very small refresh, they let the car sit for another 5 years. Most of the reason for the flops of the Gen 1 SC and Gen 2 GS were the fact that Lexus simply ignored them. If BMW were selling a 550i that ... Read More
